Do you regret choosing your power adder?

[Forestlump]

From a pure intellectual level in this thread, @engineermike is likely light years ahead of most everyone in here regarding the review and understanding of data logs and mechanics that drive them.

I’d like to remind everyone else that it’s okay to be proud of what you spent your money on. But that doesn’t mean it’s the best thing out there.

I'm not proud of what I spent my money on! it's a bloody waste tbh, I've suggested a system that I didn't buy, purely on design and working principle.

If you want evidence of my intellectual competence, I'm an aircraft engineer, studded aeronautics and qualified as an engines airframe engineer. I studied combustion from external to gas turbines in the ministry of defence. As hobbies, I've raced Moto X and karts until 16 where I went in to mini stocks and classic thunder after. I've built my own engines since about 13.
I do my own work on all my cars/bikes including the Mustang so thick as mince really, I don't understand any mechanical principles especially reading data logs!

Once the weather turns better here, I will do a data log with VCM scanner, used it to remotely map the car when I fitted the charger. Not that I need to prove anything as the laws of physics are what they are.

And just to point out that superchargers were developed originally for Aircraft, mostly by the British, french and Germans. Then they got used for racing on Bentley blower's. A centrifugal supercharger was fitted to the merlin engine in the spitfire. Google it, you will see the rolls Royce merlin supercharger is an almost identical design to the vortech/ Paxton units. There's a very good reason the new Formula 1 cars have a centrifugal compressor electric turbo unit and not a twin screw/ roots style and it's not because they don't know what their doing.

Send McLaren your data log Engineermike, might be next year's winning car?

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[robvas]

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[SheepDog]

I went with a Centri because-
Cost
Ease of installation and maintenance
less stress on the rotating assembly due to the lack of torque at low RPM's (I had no plans to build the motor)
The high reving nature of the Coyote Suits the Centri power delivery

As far a V8's and old tech-
The Coyote and its PCM are just as good as anything on the market for the price, and many european brands use/used V8's until emissions laws make them undesireable.

There is something about the noise and the way a front engine rear wheel drive, manual transmission V8 car behaves that makes these cars special, and I wouldn't trade it for almost anything else.

 

[gsxr1300]

how dare you try and push the thread back on topic

lol sorry

 

[NGOT8R]

how dare you try and push the thread back on topic

Haha! When I read your post, it made me think of a song that an 80’s rap group called Whodini wrote.

 

[LOL WUT]

I'm not proud of what I spent my money on! it's a bloody waste tbh, I've suggested a system that I didn't buy, purely on design and working principle.

If you want evidence of my intellectual competence, I'm an aircraft engineer, studded aeronautics and qualified as an engines airframe engineer. I studied combustion from external to gas turbines in the ministry of defence. As hobbies, I've raced Moto X and karts until 16 where I went in to mini stocks and classic thunder after. I've built my own engines since about 13.
I do my own work on all my cars/bikes including the Mustang so thick as mince really, I don't understand any mechanical principles especially reading data logs!

Once the weather turns better here, I will do a data log with VCM scanner, used it to remotely map the car when I fitted the charger. Not that I need to prove anything as the laws of physics are what they are.

And just to point out that superchargers were developed originally for Aircraft, mostly by the British, french and Germans. Then they got used for racing on Bentley blower's. A centrifugal supercharger was fitted to the merlin engine in the spitfire. Google it, you will see the rolls Royce merlin supercharger is an almost identical design to the vortech/ Paxton units. There's a very good reason the new Formula 1 cars have a centrifugal compressor electric turbo unit and not a twin screw/ roots style and it's not because they don't know what their doing.

Send McLaren your data log Engineermike, might be next year's winning car?

Do you feel better now?

 

[Forestlump]

Do you feel better now?

Haha, yes thanks
I got pulled in to an argument, but hopefully there is some info in here that would help someone.

Tbh I never write on any forums despite occasionally using them as an info source but I've had a laugh anyway so not all bad.

Horses for courses as they say.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Haha, yes thanks
I got pulled in to an argument, but hopefully there is some info in here that would help someone.

Tbh I never write on any forums despite occasionally using them as an info source but I've had a laugh anyway so not all bad.

Horses for courses as they say.

How can any info here help anyone when nobody trusts the data provided?

 

[Exploded_Muffin]

My thoughts on this...pick whatever you want that suits your needs and set up the cooling properly.

If you are doing short pulls for fun on the street, street racing, drag racing, or road-course racing you will have different cooling requirements so doesn't make sense to compare supercharger types (specifically cooling behavior and capacity) across all applications.

OP wants a "fun" daily setup and I think most will agree that up to a certain power level (probably 800whp) PD superchargers are more "fun" on the street.
Above 800whp pick whatever you want as you'll be fighting traction on the street with either especially with the 10R80.
You are not going to heat soak a Whipple or ESS on 93 on the street.

@Wolfys11 I can corroborate the logs from @engineermike

I had an ESS G3 with the 100mm pulley on E85 making 15 psi at 7700rpm at about 870whp.
Currently have a GT500 on E85 making 21 psi @ 8000rpm at close to 1000whp.

This is a log for the G3 with G3 intercooler and opened up grille. 60F ambient, 30% humidity (December in Texas)
Start - end speed: 70 - 120 mph
Start - end charge temp (IAT): 86 - 126 F

This is a log for the GT500 with the stock TVS2650 supercharger and VMP intercooler. 77F ambient, 88% humidity (Summer in Texas)
Start - end speed: 70 - 120 mph
Start - end charge temp (MCT): 99 - 106 F

 

[Wolfys11]

My thoughts on this...pick whatever you want that suits your needs and set up the cooling properly.

If you are doing short pulls for fun on the street, street racing, drag racing, or road-course racing you will have different cooling requirements so doesn't make sense to compare supercharger types (specifically cooling behavior and capacity) across all applications.

OP wants a "fun" daily setup and I think most will agree that up to a certain power level (probably 800whp) PD superchargers are more "fun" on the street.
Above 800whp pick whatever you want as you'll be fighting traction on the street with either especially with the 10R80.
You are not going to heat soak a Whipple or ESS on 93 on the street.

@Wolfys11 I can corroborate the logs from @engineermike

I had an ESS G3 with the 100mm pulley on E85 making 15 psi at 7700rpm at about 870whp.
Currently have a GT500 on E85 making 21 psi @ 8000rpm at close to 1000whp.

This is a log for the G3 with G3 intercooler and opened up grille. 60F ambient, 30% humidity (December in Texas)
Start - end speed: 70 - 120 mph
Start - end charge temp (IAT): 86 - 126 F

This is a log for the GT500 with the stock TVS2650 supercharger and VMP intercooler. 77F ambient, 88% humidity (Summer in Texas)
Start - end speed: 70 - 120 mph
Start - end charge temp (MCT): 99 - 106 F

G3 at 870whp on a g3 intercooler is a huge cause for the issues, meanwhile the gt500 has an upgraded intercooler for the stock supercharger. I can look at a log for wengered at some point this week to see for myself what my system is running, but a g3 to a g4 intercoolee is a substantial difference for air to air cooling

if its 20 degrees above ambient from the start of the log, your log already is showing a lot of heat for the temperature in my opinion

 

[beefcake]

I went ESS G3 120mm on 93. Is 100+lbs lighter than most PD setups on the front of the car.
I'm happy with it. 650whp in my daily. Is fun to drive and really kicks when you need it too. Plus with the quieter gears is def a sleeper. One thing I wish I did while doing the blower was to do headers at same time. They shouldn't even install any of these on the stock cans. I figured I'd make it through the season on the stock ones. My new headers will be here tomorrow since my OEM ones are cooked. Thanks Beefcake.

 

[Exploded_Muffin]

G3 at 870whp on a g3 intercooler is a huge cause for the issues, meanwhile the gt500 has an upgraded intercooler for the stock supercharger. I can look at a log for wengered at some point this week to see for myself what my system is running, but a g3 to a g4 intercoolee is a substantial difference for air to air cooling

if its 20 degrees above ambient from the start of the log, your log already is showing a lot of heat for the temperature in my opinion

So my ESS was heat soaked? I thought they don't heat soak? Lol

The point was to show the rise in temperature over a similar pull 70 - 120 pull for PD vs Centri and show that you can setup your cooling to handle your heat output irrespective of Centri vs PD.

The G4 intercooler has better cooling capacity than the G3 but no, it is not a "substantial" increase over the G3.

 

[Wolfys11]

So my ESS was heat soaked? I thought they don't heat soak? Lol

The point was to show the rise in temperature over a similar pull 70 - 120 pull for PD vs Centri and show that you can setup your cooling to handle your heat output irrespective of Centri vs PD.

The G4 intercooler has better cooling capacity than the G3 but no, it is not a "substantial" increase over the G3.

I mean, if i put a 600whp intercooler on a 900whp setup, can you really ask the centri to not heat soak?

a g4 is a decent amount bigger than a g3, and to be totally honest i dont think a g4 is a “adequate size” for the 95-105mm pully gang, however its all you will fit without big modification to crash bars and bumpers

i understand the pd arent super bad setups anymore, but theres a reason why alot of pd setups choose to factory add ice boxes and none of the centri setups commonly use anything past air to air

they are hotter setups, so they will need things like iceboxes to compete. I also will put this out there, i think most of us are aware a whipple will make more power than a centri however the heat will cause debate of whos actually making the power and whos just cold engine making a dyno pull

 

[shogun32]

Only other con for PD, to me, is the extra stress of making boost lower in the rpm range.

how is it nobody has put a variable blow-off valve/boost controller on the high side of PD system just like is needed for turbo setups?

 

[robvas]

they are hotter setups, so they will need things like iceboxes to compete.

The point of iceboxes and interchillers is to get the IAT below ambient, which you can't do with just water or air.

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