Do you regret choosing your power adder?

[Milktasd]

Since getting a s550 just always wanted a PD blower. Bought a10 3.15 gear 21 gt and kept deciding between a roush or whipple due to being a fun daily blower.

Have been reading that a lot of people say a centrifugal is better for an auto due to the powerband and shift points.

Did you go pd and wish you went centri?
Did you go centri and wish you went pd?

just assumed that a turbo wouldn’t be the ideal daily setup.

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[robvas]

No, I'd put another Whipple on in two seconds

 

[jd_cobra]

Since getting a s550 just always wanted a PD blower. Bought a10 3.15 gear 21 gt and kept deciding between a roush or whipple due to being a fun daily blower.

Have been reading that a lot of people say a centrifugal is better for an auto due to the powerband and shift points.

Did you go pd and wish you went centri?
Did you go centri and wish you went pd?

just assumed that a turbo wouldn’t be the ideal daily setup.

Most with the A10 go with a Centri and M6 go with a PD due to the gearing. At least that’s what I’ve seen on here for the most part.

ESS G2-G3 10r80 cars pull pretty hard

 

[NGOT8R]

Having had two supercharged Mustangs in the past and 3 nitrous’d Mustangs, I like both. I’ve always wanted to try a turbo setup though, but for now, my 2019 Bullitt with nitrous is treating me very well and I have no regrets with my choice of power adder.

 

[Wolfys11]

Depends on use, i solely fun drive street my car, im on stock tires all seasons and manual, i went g3 ess centri to keep my stock wheel setup and have good traction, i only put drag springs in and never have real traction issues, a pd would have me spinning 4th gear

 

[robvas]

Depends on use, i solely fun drive street my car, im on stock tires all seasons and manual, i went g3 ess centri to keep my stock wheel setup and have good traction, i only put drag springs in and never have real traction issues, a pd would have me spinning 4th gear

You're just making less power then

 

[Wolfys11]

You're just making less power then

Makin about 650-700 whp
I have non performance pack gear ratio
The power comes in at top so it doesnt spin low rpm like any pd does

 

[engineermike]

I own a whipple and a roush blower. I'd never consider a centrif on a coyote. There was a time when centrifs made more top and PD made more bottom, but that was when the PD blowers were tiny and inefficient. Centrifs still have the bottom-end disadvantage but they lost their top-end edge due to the size and efficiency of modern PD blowers. The 10r helps "hide" some of this disadvantage by keeping the engine in the sweet stop of the centrif.

The advantages of the centrif really boil down to cost and ease of installation these days.

 

[Wolfys11]

I own a whipple and a roush blower. I'd never consider a centrif on a coyote. There was a time when centrifs made more top and PD made more bottom, but that was when the PD blowers were tiny and inefficient. Centrifs still have the bottom-end disadvantage but they lost their top-end edge due to the size and efficiency of modern PD blowers. The 10r helps "hide" some of this disadvantage by keeping the engine in the sweet stop of the centrif.

The advantages of the centrif really boil down to cost and ease of installation these days.

Not necessarily true
Everything you said is true, whipple and others have gottrn very good top end now, however one of the biggest advantages centri has is cooling and heat. Whipple goes 40+ ambient temp when doing a pull. Personally on a 8-10psi depending on outside temp setup for my ess, i have never seen past 15 degrees above ambient, and were talking about a pull from 40mph to 170mph. A whipple will lose almost a 100 hp from heat by the time you get to 140mph in a pull, which of course can be fixed via a killer chiller, or some meth injection but not everyone is going past a blower add on

 

[engineermike]

Not necessarily true
Everything you said is true, whipple and others have gottrn very good top end now, however one of the biggest advantages centri has is cooling and heat. Whipple goes 40+ ambient temp when doing a pull. Personally on a 8-10psi depending on outside temp setup for my ess, i have never seen past 15 degrees above ambient, and were talking about a pull from 40mph to 170mph. A whipple will lose almost a 100 hp from heat by the time you get to 140mph in a pull, which of course can be fixed via a killer chiller, or some meth injection but not everyone is going past a blower add on

Ah, yes, I forgot to discuss the intercooler differences. I've done extensive logging and comparisons here.

With a water/air in a PD blower, it is true that the water temp rises during normal driving to around 20-30 deg over ambient (40-50 for Roush) and there's just no bringing it back down. The MCT rises to the same temp to match. People see that and shout "heat soak!". However, at WOT, the air temp just doesn't rise much more than that (Whipple, not Roush). It's hard to believe but I have log after log showing that at WOT the MCT stays almost constant. I'm looking at a log now that includes two 60-130 pulls with 2 minutes of driving in between. The first pull started at 90 charge temp and ended at 97, while the second pull started at 97 finished at 99 deg. I actually didn't believe the readings, so I tested the sensor using ice water and boiling water while it was plugged into the PCM and it turns out it was accurate.

Conversely, logs have been posted here showing temp rise with air/air intercoolers and quite the opposite story was true. They stay very cool while driving around normally, but once you go WOT the temp rises rapidly. If you're only seeing <15 over ambient over a long pull then you are likely pulling data from the wrong temp sensor. It's an easy mistake to make.

All that said, a PD blower airflow will not decline as the charge temp rises because it's an inlet volumetric flow device. There is basically no power loss if you're on E85, but some due to knock limits if you're on gasoline. A centrif will actually reduce airflow as a result of higher charge temp because it backs up on the compressor curve.

 

[robvas]

It's amazing how much more heat you can pull with air to water vs air to air. BMW moved to it for the B58 and Corvette is using it on the C8 ZR1

 

[engineermike]

These logs tell the intercooler story well.

This is an ESS on the 125 mm pulley, 60-130 pull. As I described, the initial charge temp is very close to ambient, but rises rapidly:

This is a Whipple on the 4" pulley. The initial charge temp is 16 deg over ambient due to "heat soak", but barely rises over the course of the pull:

And for good measure, here's the sad Roush intercooler. This is an 1/8 mile pull, but you get the idea. It's like the worst of both worlds, starting high and rapidly rising. Note that I had to extend the scale vs the others above.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Ah, yes, I forgot to discuss the intercooler differences. I've done extensive logging and comparisons here.

With a water/air in a PD blower, it is true that the water temp rises during normal driving to around 20-30 deg over ambient (40-50 for Roush) and there's just no bringing it back down. The MCT rises to the same temp to match. People see that and shout "heat soak!". However, at WOT, the air temp just doesn't rise much more than that (Whipple, not Roush). It's hard to believe but I have log after log showing that at WOT the MCT stays almost constant. I'm looking at a log now that includes two 60-130 pulls with 2 minutes of driving in between. The first pull started at 90 charge temp and ended at 97, while the second pull started at 97 finished at 99 deg. I actually didn't believe the readings, so I tested the sensor using ice water and boiling water while it was plugged into the PCM and it turns out it was accurate.

Conversely, logs have been posted here showing temp rise with air/air intercoolers and quite the opposite story was true. They stay very cool while driving around normally, but once you go WOT the temp rises rapidly. If you're only seeing <15 over ambient over a long pull then you are likely pulling data from the wrong temp sensor. It's an easy mistake to make.

All that said, a PD blower airflow will not decline as the charge temp rises because it's an inlet volumetric flow device. There is basically no power loss if you're on E85, but some due to knock limits if you're on gasoline. A centrif will actually reduce airflow as a result of higher charge temp because it backs up on the compressor curve.

I agree. Especially on the air to air iat rise. If this guy has a iat of 15deg over ambient on a 170mph pull, he's reading the wrong sensor or his car is at an extremely low boosted power level.

 

[Wolfys11]

These logs tell the intercooler story well.

This is an ESS on the 125 mm pulley, 60-130 pull. As I described, the initial charge temp is very close to ambient, but rises rapidly:

This is a Whipple on the 4" pulley. The initial charge temp is 16 deg over ambient due to "heat soak", but barely rises over the course of the pull:

And for good measure, here's the sad Roush intercooler. This is an 1/8 mile pull, but you get the idea. It's like the worst of both worlds, starting high and rapidly rising. Note that I had to extend the scale vs the others above.

Im not sure which sensor im reading, im going off real time reading the inlet air temp, which i assumed was my charge temp from the maf sensor post intercooler, is that not the same?

 

[engineermike]

Im not sure which sensor im reading, im going off real time reading the inlet air temp, which i assumed was my charge temp from the maf sensor post intercooler, is that not the same?

Im just saying that there is IAT1, IAT2, MCT, and relocation harnesses involved so it’s very easy to log the wrong one. And based on your temp readings, I highly suspect you’re reading pre-supercharger air temp.

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