GT350 Engine Refresh Time!

[bauern]

Thanks for clarifying - I appreciate your clearing this up - so it's vestigial or decorative at this point? Kind of like our appendix?

I wonder if the GT500 has created a use for it even if the GT350 didn't.

It's possible that it was used on the 2015+ F150s as they use a different adapter and the 18+ Coyote.
F150:

18+ Coyote

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[honeybadger]

Update from Aaron at JPC and Rich from RGR:

Heads are currently CNC ported, guides are in, and all of the parts are ready to go. Just waiting on the machine to get the valve job done. We've chosen to upgrade the intake valves as well. The OEM valves are manufactured in Mexico and Ford Performance offers a higher quality replacement that's made in Germany. Checkout part # M-6507-M52. Pics from Rich comparing the two below:

Side note: @cosmo could the country of origin be related to the cam phaser debate (GR3Z vs FR3Z)? Definitely an interesting possibility.

Edit: Tim is waiting on a shipment of sleeves from Darton that are due in tomorrow. Should have an updated timeline from him next week. Cool stuff.

 

[AceOne]

GR3Z are a "low leak rate" phasers better suited for higher rev use. better for racing. They are going in my new build.
FR3Z are still the ones used in OEM engines if I understood the engineer correctly. So far these are working in my current motor but I'm hoping to get more hp higher up if the GR3Z phasers are really more stable at higher rpms.

 

[cosmo]

That could be a reason! It would make sense to track the sourcing differences that way.

Only reasons I think that may not be the case for the phasers are:

1.) Both GT350 and GT350R engines are made in Romeo. If one was made in Germany or something, that would make sense to have a source difference as many parts are sourced differently when the engines are produced in different continents.
2.) The Ford Racing Phaser kit has the GR3E part number stamped on it.

EDIT: Sounds like the poster above me has confirmed functional differences as well.

 

[honeybadger]

GR3Z are a "low leak rate" phasers better suited for higher rev use. better for racing. They are going in my new build.
FR3Z are still the ones used in OEM engines if I understood the engineer correctly. So far these are working in my current motor but I'm hoping to get more hp higher up if the GR3Z phasers are really more stable at higher rpms.

I'm betting your right as this jives with what FP told me. I have a set of the phasers and lifters on the way

 

[AceOne]

Update from Aaron at JPC and Rich from RGR:

Heads are currently CNC ported, guides are in, and all of the parts are ready to go. Just waiting on the machine to get the valve job done. We've chosen to upgrade the intake valves as well. The OEM valves are manufactured in Mexico and Ford Performance offers a higher quality replacement that's made in Germany. Checkout part # M-6507-M52. Pics from Rich comparing the two below:

Side note: @cosmo could the country of origin be related to the cam phaser debate (GR3Z vs FR3Z)? Definitely an interesting possibility.

Edit: Tim is waiting on a shipment of sleeves from Darton that are due in tomorrow. Should have an updated timeline from him next week. Cool stuff.

I have yet to hear of a failed intake valve. I saw the new valves posted from FR but was unsure of any differences from production. Is Aaron/Rich certain of the 5.2 valve being made in Mexico? I assume the coyote valves are.

I thought Rich was using a 40* backcut valve? Or was that just the exhaust valves??

 

[btown93]

In Ford Parts numbering, the prefix identifies the year and model. For this discussion, FR3Z essentially means 2015 Mustang. GR3Z means 2016 Mustang. It's not just for that year, it can be used multiple years...but its more about the time frame for origination, if that makes sense. a 2017 GT350 would still use many parts that a 15/16 GT350 did (or any 15/16 mustang for that matter) that carry the FR3Z prefix. Sill plates for example, were changed in 2017, so those carry an HR3Z prefix. I don't know that it would have anything to do with country of origin.

F=2015
G= 2016
H= 2017

R3= Mustang
Z= ford customer service division

 

[Epiphany]

Is Aaron/Rich certain of the 5.2 valve being made in Mexico?

I'd assume country of origin would be labeled on any box(es) of factory Ford valves they may have had in their possession.

Based on the retail Ford price I'd assume they do indeed come from a country outside the US...

 

[AceOne]

I just emailed the engineer about several things and also asked about the intake valves for clarification. I will update when he responds with any new info.

 

[bauern]

I Is Aaron/Rich certain of the 5.2 valve being made in Mexico?

They are made in Mexico.

 

[AceOne]

From the engineer:

<<<<Valves: All 5.2L valves were produced in Germany. Recently, they went through a manufacturing relocation change to Mexico.

FR valves will change over to the Mexican valves once we’d depleted the German valves. I’m told they are supposed to be flow neutral, but I’ve not tested them myself.>>>>

My newly purchased heads have the unpolished valves in them so apparently from Mexico. They were Production parts not bought from FR but FR and Production are the same according to the engineer. FR may still have some with the polished valve in them until they run out though. My first heads from FR in 2016 were the nicely polished valves. The image is from my current engine from last month when I had the intake off to install a heat shield. They stay pretty clean with the E85 fuel. This is 29K miles of use so far.

I am planning to just polish these in the new head when I change out the valve springs. I think it helps to keep everything polished in the chamber to help with detonation and helps reduce carbon build up on the top of the valves.

So in the future it looks like only the unpolished valves will be available from FR. View attachment 342954

 

[DCShelby]

Going to polish those CNC cut ridges out? They seem to be trapping carbon deposits.

 

[AceOne]

Going to polish those CNC cut ridges out? They seem to be trapping carbon deposits.

Yes!, I'm going to clean up the bowl area and around the guides. I only worked on the exhaust ports on my currents head and only in the port...smoothing and matching to headers. I never pull the valves out as I had limited time on build it. I have pics of each of the intake ports now with the carbon build up which should help guide me on what areas con be improved in the ports. These heads flow really well and it would be easy to make them less efficient. Without flowing them I just try to do very limited touching up and smoothing. The CNC ridges aren't worth smoothing as it is usually best to leave intake ports with a non polished surface. I only polish the chambers and exhaust ports. I used to have access to Super Flow 1020 bench but not anymore.

The image shows what I did with my current engine. I plan on more for v2.0

 

[DCShelby]

Yes I’ve been told by my ME buds that for the intake its best not to have laminar flow so that the air and fuel tumble better, to get a better mixture. But on exhaust that’s not the case. I had the IPD intake plenums on my 911s with the dimpled pattern inside it right past the throttle body

 

[olaosunt]

Question for the experts
If you are swapping pistons either in a FP or CP build , do they have to specially “clearanced ” for the high lift cams (Voodoo or ford racing ?)

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