GT350 Engine Refresh Time!

[honeybadger]

Of interesting note, I reached out to Amsoil's techs to discuss oil options and they recommend running their Dominator 15-50 oil in HB's new engine.

My understanding is that one of the most important numbers to be looking at is the High Temperature/ High Shear (HTHS) viscosity since this is the oil's resistance to shearing at very high temperatures (i.e. track use). The regular line has an HTHS of 4.45 and the Dominator is 5.7 (assuming the 50 weight oil for both). While the 15-50 will obviously be thicker when cold, this should be less of a problem on a racing/track only engine.

Here's the Dominator Tech Sheet and the Signature Series Tech Sheet

On the bright side, the Dominator line can be bought in 55g drums. It's tempting just to be able to say you have 55 gallons of it

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[MikeMM]

Of interesting note, I reached out to Amsoil's techs to discuss oil options and they recommend running their Dominator 15-50 oil in HB's new engine.

My understanding is that one of the most important numbers to be looking at is the High Temperature/ High Shear (HTHS) viscosity since this is the oil's resistance to shearing at very high temperatures (i.e. track use). The regular line has an HTHS of 4.45 and the Dominator is 5.7 (assuming the 50 weight oil for both). While the 15-50 will obviously be thicker when cold, this should be less of a problem on a racing/track only engine.

Here's the Dominator Tech Sheet and the Signature Series Tech Sheet

On the bright side, the Dominator line can be bought in 55g drums. It's tempting just to be able to say you have 55 gallons of it

Huh, that's interesting. I'm interested to see what oil pressures will look like when the oil is cold with the added viscosity.

 

[JAJ]

...My understanding is that one of the most important numbers to be looking at is the High Temperature/ High Shear (HTHS) viscosity since this is the oil's resistance to shearing at very high temperatures (i.e. track use)...
On the bright side, the Dominator line can be bought in 55g drums. It's tempting just to be able to say you have 55 gallons of it...

The capacity to do 22 oil changes between trips to the store sounds pretty handy.

As for HTHS ratings, don't overthink it. The Ford spec for the engine is 3.7, so while it's tempting to think that more is better, more viscosity also generates more heat from friction, so a lot more viscosity might not gain you much. It's a balancing act.

 

[bauern]

Huh, that's interesting. I'm interested to see what oil pressures will look like when the oil is cold with the added viscosity.

I used the Amsoil 15W50 Dominator when I first switched over from regular break in oil. I have since switched to Schaeffer racing oil ONLY because it comes in 5W50. Cold pressure with the Amsoil was only a little higher than what the 5W50 gives.
This is the Schaeffer tech data (9001 supreme oil) for those interested:

SAE Grade 5W-50
Viscosity @ 40C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 146.87
Specific Gravity (ASTM D-1298) 0.85 Viscosity @ 100C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 20.24
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) 158 High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity 302F/150C, cP (ASTM D-4683) 5.08
Cold Cranking Viscosity(ASTM D-5293) @-30C, cP 6,005
Flash Point F/C (ASTM D-92) 440/226.67
Stable Pour Point F/C (FTM 7916 Method 203) <-41/<-42
Total Base Number (ASTM D-2896) 7.1
Sulfated Ash Content % wt (ASTM D-874) 1.1
Shear Stability (ASTM D-3945 Procedure A) % Viscosity Loss 14%

I wouldn't hesitate to use Amsoil again

 

[MikeMM]

I used the Amsoil 15W50 Dominator when I first switched over from regular break in oil. I have since switched to Schaeffer racing oil ONLY because it comes in 5W50. Cold pressure with the Amsoil was only a little higher than what the 5W50 gives.

Thanks for the info. I live in the frigid Northeast, so even in the hottest part of August my cold idle PSI runs in the high 70's. I'm looking for oil alternatives, but my concern is the added viscosity is going to put unnecessary stress on the pump and lines until it gets up to temp.

 

[DCShelby]

I’d like to know what they do to the heads and if they press in new valve stem seals, and how the original ones look.

 

[Hack]

In most engines/filters/oiling systems there is a bypass. So, for cold startup if the oil is very thick most of the oil goes back to the pan rather than being pumped through the filter and engine. So areas far away from the oil pump have to get by on the oil left in the system plus the lower volume available from the pump. Probably not typically a big deal unless you try to load up the engine or rev it when it's really cold. Higher viscosity oil would extend the length of time that the bypass is sending a lot of oil back to the pan.

I would assume this doesn't really apply to Honeybadger because he will not be running the car in really cold situations, since the car is almost entirely being used on the track. For mostly track use, I tend to agree with his builder's recommendation. Plus, he has absolutely no warranty concerns either.

I’d like to know what they do to the heads and if they press in new valve stem seals, and how the original ones look.

Me too. I'd also want to know how the valves and their guides look. I know the Voodoo has a lot of valve lift, which could accelerate wear.

 

[cosmo]

In most engines/filters/oiling systems there is a bypass. So, for cold startup if the oil is very thick most of the oil goes back to the pan rather than being pumped through the filter and engine. So areas far away from the oil pump have to get by on the oil left in the system plus the lower volume available from the pump. Probably not typically a big deal unless you try to load up the engine or rev it when it's really cold. Higher viscosity oil would extend the length of time that the bypass is sending a lot of oil back to the pan.

I would assume this doesn't really apply to Honeybadger because he will not be running the car in really cold situations, since the car is almost entirely being used on the track. For mostly track use, I tend to agree with his builder's recommendation. Plus, he has absolutely no warranty concerns either.


Me too. I'd also want to know how the valves and their guides look. I know the Voodoo has a lot of valve lift, which could accelerate wear.

No, the bypass valve in the OFA or filter (depending on the configuration) bypasses the oil filter, allowing unfiltered oil into the engine. During cold startup the pressure relief valve opens if the oil is too viscous to pass through the filter at a satisfactory rate by measuring pre and post filter pressures.

EDIT: just wanting to clarify, I do not know of any other oil filter with a dumpback into the oil pan. Typically it's a bypass of the filter entirely and the oil goes directly into the engine. The engine doesn't operate with a limited "trapped" quantity of oil.

 

[JAJ]

There are two bypasses:

The oil pressure relief valve that's part of the pump bypasses oil back into the pan if the pump output pressure is above a threshold, usually around 100PSI, but it depends on the engine. It's in operation when the oil is cold at low RPM and when the oil is hot at higher RPM. Its purpose is to keep from blowing out seals, more than anything else.

The oil filter has a relief valve that bypasses the filter and allows unfiltered oil to circulate in the engine if the oil is too viscous or too cold. This prevents pressure build-up across the filter (which could damage the filter media) and it makes sure the engine doesn't starve for oil when it's cold.

If you have debris in your oil pan, the filter bypass is not your friend. The thicker and more viscous the oil you run, the longer the filter bypass stays open.

 

[JAJ]

... just wanting to clarify, I do not know of any other oil filter with a dumpback into the oil pan. Typically it's a bypass of the filter entirely and the oil goes directly into the engine. The engine doesn't operate with a limited "trapped" quantity of oil.

There's a "third port" on the oil filter adapter on the newer 5.2 liter block, which leads back to the sump, IIRC. It may be there so that unfiltered oil that overloads the filter pressure limit is bypassed back to the pan rather than being set free to roam around the engine and cause trouble.

 

[cosmo]

There's a "third port" on the oil filter adapter on the newer 5.2 liter block, which leads back to the sump, IIRC. It may be there so that unfiltered oil that overloads the filter pressure limit is bypassed back to the pan rather than being set free to roam around the engine and cause trouble.

Is that on the new canister-style OFA, or are you talking that's it has always been a part of the Voodoo?

 

[Hack]

Thanks for the corrections. I have no idea how the Voodoo engine works so I was speaking generically (hence the word "MOST" in my original post). AFAIK there's usually a bypass of the oil pump, which just lowers the volume of oil that goes into the engine. Interesting to hear that some engines also have a bypass of the filter.

 

[JAJ]

Is that on the new canister-style OFA, or are you talking that's it has always been a part of the Voodoo?

I read about it in somewhere in an article or a post about assembling a Voodoo block, and they put the early gen oil filter adapter on and it leaked because there was a third port in the block and the early gen oil filter adapter only had two openings, not three. Unfortunately, I can't find it again, but I remembered wondering what the third port was for. So, to be precise, I don't know if it's on all 5.2 blocks or just the newest one, and I don't actually know what it's there for.

 

[bauern]

I read about it in somewhere in an article or a post about assembling a Voodoo block, and they put the early gen oil filter adapter on and it leaked because there was a third port in the block and the early gen oil filter adapter only had two openings, not three. Unfortunately, I can't find it again, but I remembered wondering what the third port was for. So, to be precise, I don't know if it's on all 5.2 blocks or just the newest one, and I don't actually know what it's there for.

It's been on all 2015+ blocks, Coyote and Voodoo. It doesn't really lead anywhere, and the only way for oil to get there is to squeeze between the machined surfaces of the block and oil filter adapter. Here's a picture of the backside of the Coyote adapter which also fits the Voodoo block:

 

[JAJ]

It's been on all 2015+ blocks, Coyote and Voodoo. It doesn't really lead anywhere, and the only way for oil to get there is to squeeze between the machined surfaces of the block and oil filter adapter. Here's a picture of the backside of the Coyote adapter which also fits the Voodoo block:

Thanks for clarifying - I appreciate your clearing this up - so it's vestigial or decorative at this point? Kind of like our appendix?

I wonder if the GT500 has created a use for it even if the GT350 didn't.

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