2017 gt350 engine failure

[KiLLeR2001]

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66091

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[Mike02z]

I'm not going to search, you are the one making the assertion that its likely the OPGs, not me, and are saying there are other documented cases.

I'm not going to do the legwork to back up the claim you are making, lol. I will simply call it what it is, speculation until proven otherwise.

And I have no idea what the potential cause is, there have been pretty random failures (documented ones) and most seem unrelated, so it's really hard to speculate.

No disrespect krt22 but Scott is a professional auto technician and has proven his knowledge in many, many posts. I agree that we don't know exactly what the issue is but in my view the OPG is likely the issue.

For whatever reason Ford chose to use the same cast OPG a that is in the Coyote. The Coyote does not push over 100lbs of oil pressure when at idle when cold. If you rev it out with the oil cold it could be pushing 125+ lbs of oil pressure, Based on the inherent weakness in a cast part vs a forged part, this is likely the cause.

I guess we will all just need to wait and see but if I was a betting man my money would be on cracked OPG.

Let's all chill guys. We are arguing about our hobby. This should be fun :cheers:

 

[THX 138]

For whatever reason Ford chose to use the same cast OPG a that is in the Coyote.

(and FWIW, this actually doesn't read like a contentious thread at all once you add a certain someone to your Ignore list... ;) )

 

[krt22]

I wasnt trying to cause a heated debate. I fully understand why its a very likely suspect, but being a mechanical engineer I've seen enough cases where the smoking gun was not so smoking when the full failure analysis was done.

I honestly managed to miss the cases where owners had documented the OPG failing and was asking for someone to point me in the right direction since they seemed very familiar with the other cases. It was all burred within that 24 page thread above so it managed to slip under my radar.

 

[stanglife]

At this rate, there are more OPG failures than failed oil cooler lines. I think we got a recall on the wrong part fellas.

Kinda funny actually.

No need to argue. I can agree with KRT22 that people haven't proven anything - no pictures of destroyed OPGs....but I have heard of symptoms from 2 cars that sounded like OPG symptoms. Have I seen the insides of the engine, no.

 

[chase527]

That sucks about the engine. I hope it all goes well with the replacement.
Good luck!
So, can you explain something to me? The dealerships techs just took the car in and said,....you need a new engine, we'll call Ford??? Didn't they even look at the engine apart or just assumed it was not good? Surely they must know what is wrong with the car to have Ford officials come and okay a replacement engine?

They ran some sort of diagnostic the day after I had car towed and determined that something internal broke loose. I was told today that they are waiting on orders from ford. They may be directed to tear down or just wait until a specialized tech determines failure.

 

[chase527]

Serious question: what could be other potential causes of low/no oil pressure after a hard pull?

I don't think we heard if it registered zero pressure on the gauge or low pressure though.

0 pressure after incident

 

[chase527]

Whoa. Some of you guys spend wayyyy too much time on the forum. Not every topic needs to be a battle royal.

OP - good luck getting your car fixed. Assuming it's at Folsom Lake Ford?

Ford roadside would only cover 35 miles, had it towed to future ford. Folsom lake ford would have cost me 350 overage.

 

[Epiphany]

...I am more data/fact driven. It very well could be the OPG, I'd just like to know what facts everyone is basing their opinions on.

I share the same opinion and try to keep an open mind as much as I'm leaning towards the OPG as well.

Apparently somebody else makes some too...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1493496137350752&set=gm.1322896127777194&type=3&permPage=1

TSS is well respected when it comes to upgraded pump gears in modular Ford engines.

 

[Hack]

Serious question: what could be other potential causes of low/no oil pressure after a hard pull?

I don't think we heard if it registered zero pressure on the gauge or low pressure though.

A spun bearing - either a rod bearing or a main bearing - will cause the clearances to change for the oil passage and cause the oil pressure to fall very low. This is especially true if you have a cold engine and you rev it with little or no load on it. Spun bearing was my first thought when I originally read the OP's statement that started the thread. The block is aluminum and the crank is steel - obviously bearing clearances are different when the parts are cold versus when they are at operating temperature so it is easier to spin a bearing at that time. Revving a cold motor or when the motor revs quickly with very little load causes the potential for the bearing to spin.

Of course it could be related to the oil pump as well, but that seems less likely to me. People have shown that there's a fair amount of debris in these engines when they are new. Debris going through the oil pump could cause an issue.

I disagree with those that think cold oil by itself would cause a problem with the oil pump gear. Obviously I don't know because I know nothing about the specs on the parts, but it's just hard for me to imagine that Ford engineers haven't done extensive testing at cold. I know I've driven Coyotes and my Voodoo a significant amount in below zero temperatures.

Heck, yesterday it was really warm at 30 F on my way home from work and over 20 miles of driving including a bunch of stop and go my oil only got up to 170 degrees. The engine works fine when it's 40 degrees colder than that. I know first hand.

I wasnt trying to cause a heated debate. I fully understand why its a very likely suspect, but being a mechanical engineer I've seen enough cases where the smoking gun was not so smoking when the full failure analysis was done.

I honestly managed to miss the cases where owners had documented the OPG failing and was asking for someone to point me in the right direction since they seemed very familiar with the other cases. It was all burred within that 24 page thread above so it managed to slip under my radar.

You are 100% right about FA and speculation. I think you've been very respectful in this thread as well.

 

[mustang1]

A spun bearing - either a rod bearing or a main bearing - will cause the clearances to change for the oil passage and cause the oil pressure to fall very low. ...

how low?

the oil pump appears to have another moving part with the pressure relief valve. What's the chances of that getting stuck open?

 

[Hack]

how low?

the oil pump appears to have another moving part with the pressure relief valve. What's the chances of that getting stuck open?

I've never had a spun bearing in an engine, so I don't know how low, but near zero. With a spun bearing the engine will not be quiet and smooth if it's running at all, though. You can have zero oil pressure due to other causes and very little noise in a running engine. Years ago I had a 302 with a bad pan gasket leak and the ex ran it out of oil. Thing was running fine but the oil pressure was zero.

I have no idea what the chance is of a pressure relief valve getting stuck open, but obviously it's greater than zero, especially if you introduce debris into the area.

 

[Zitrosounds]

They ran some sort of diagnostic the day after I had car towed and determined that something internal broke loose. I was told today that they are waiting on orders from ford. They may be directed to tear down or just wait until a specialized tech determines failure.

For those not familiar with the process, the dealership technicians will only do what Ford authorizes them to do. Especially on a limited production hand-built engine. Dealer technicians have specific guidelines they must follow. Once the dealership has run all the Diagnostics required they forward that information to Ford which then makes the call on whether external components must be replaced or the engine itself must be replaced. I had an exhaust cam phaser fail and that was the extent of what they were authorized to open . Ford will never direct a dealership to internally open an engine of this limited availability so they may further diagnose the failure. You need to make yourself content with not knowing the failure of the engine. They will not release the information, believe me I tried.

 

[chase527]

For those not familiar with the process, the dealership technicians will only do what Ford authorizes them to do. Especially on a limited production hand-built engine. Dealer technicians have specific guidelines they must follow. Once the dealership has run all the Diagnostics required they forward that information to Ford which then makes the call on whether external components must be replaced or the engine itself must be replaced. I had an exhaust cam phaser fail and that was the extent of what they were authorized to open . Ford will never direct a dealership to internally open an engine of this limited availability so they may further diagnose the failure. You need to make yourself content with not knowing the failure of the engine. They will not release the information, believe me I tried.

Thats goog to know, I figured I was going to have to go up the chain of command to get answers eventually, sounds like I'd be spinning my preverbal wheels.

 

[Minn19]

For those not familiar with the process, the dealership technicians will only do what Ford authorizes them to do. Especially on a limited production hand-built engine. Dealer technicians have specific guidelines they must follow. Once the dealership has run all the Diagnostics required they forward that information to Ford which then makes the call on whether external components must be replaced or the engine itself must be replaced. I had an exhaust cam phaser fail and that was the extent of what they were authorized to open . Ford will never direct a dealership to internally open an engine of this limited availability so they may further diagnose the failure. You need to make yourself content with not knowing the failure of the engine. They will not release the information, believe me I tried.

FWIW +2

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