GreenS550
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2017
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- 126
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- Location
- Houghton, MI 49931 Oakland, MI 48363
- First Name
- Bob
- Vehicle(s)
- 2019 Mustang GT Premium 2020 Explorer Limited
I'll just comment that the replaced engine does seriously affect the value. I looked long and hard for a used GT350. I used Autotrader, Ford's site, Facebook, etc, etc. Just start with "lowest price first"' and virtually all the GT350s are "lemon buyback" stamped.I’m just gonna go off your first argument—engine replacement which is your discussion about values. I’m not really going to talk about the other stuff because I’m well-versed in the California law in the buyback procedure with Ford, and so I really don’t care to go through the procedures that you posted below, you may disagree with me but I literally laid out California lemon law and also Ford’s own procedures for what the situation is like when you’re facing a buy back procedure. I pretty much skimmed the rest of that because I literally am telling you from first hand perspective what that is like to go through it, take that as you will.
To the point on engine value and whether or not that should be a factor.
you said:
“Your statement about a replacement engine is far from the truth. Engine replacement on a GT350, GT350R or GT500 will affect the value of the vehicle.”
I think you should read at what I wrote again because you are missing the crux of my argument.
Here it is what I said:
“…a replacement motor is not going to kill his values.”
This statement is followed immediately by the crux of my argument that I’m making about why it’s not going to affect his values very much:
“…[BECAUSE] … Ford made 25,000 base model GT350’s over 6 years. When magazines say that they made these in pretty big numbers they’re meaning those—base models—because that’s far more than the roughly 3,000 R models, I wouldn’t be holding out for the collector car market with any base model. Auctions have shown them selling above MSRP, but not crazy high in the 80-100k range that R models have gone for—with so many of them, it’s not going to be a factor. So if you have a base model, drive it! Enjoy it! Don’t worry about the collector car market.”
Let me explain in full:
In 1965, there were a total of 562 Shelby GT350s were built in 1965, 37 of which were the lightweight race or "R-model" cars.
Fast forward to the second generation GT350, the base model 350 numbers around 25 thousand!!
An example, in 2018 Ford made 633 GT350R models. In that same year, Ford made 639 base model GT350s in just one color, Leadfoot Gray. They made a total of 3,745 base models in that one year—that’s either about as many or more units that Ford made of the GT350R with all 6 years of production combined!!
Numbers matching base GT350s are not going to matter with that production number. If it is still a good condition car, you’re going to see values being above MSRP. IT WILL NOT BE AS IF THE CAR HAS A SALAVAGE TITLE OR WILL SELL FAR BELOW STANDARD VALUE.
Base models are too numerous to ever be a huge collector car item— we are not talking about GT350R or 500 carbon package as you mentioned in your reply. Those particular vehicles were made in a smaller numbers than their base vehicle counterparts. 3000-3600 some odd GT350R‘s to 25,000 GT350 base models.
Show me where there’s an auction were a base model 350 or even a 2015 GT350 base model went for super high value? Something in the range of an R model?
Are they selling for more than MSRP? yes. Are they commanding the same type of values of an R model? no. And the reason is because it is a base model—doesn’t matter what year it was made in, there are so many base models that you will always have more cars available than buyers, so it’s always going to drive the price down far below an R model.
For instance last week, there was an auction for a 2015 base model. There were only 100 base models produced in 2015 and the one for auction only got to “$72,500. So $79,750 final price.”
High for a base model, but for a 2015, the expectations assumed that it would be a 90k to 100k car because it is a 2015 GT350 of which there were only 100.
If the base models were so sought after or so highly valued then this 2015 base model should have sold for much higher as it would be in parity with its R-model counterpart, which as I mentioned before are selling for $150,000 to $200,000—far higher than almost any other R model from other years.
Owners with base models should enjoy their cars. They have an amazing car —it’s an amazing machine, they should drive it and enjoy it and not sit around looking at collector car values because based on just supply and demand it’s never going to affect them. So, if you plan to keep that car, who cares if your car has a second motor, or a supercharger, or if you put whatever aftermarket stuff on the car you don’t have to keep it original you got a base model—enjoy it. There are different rules for if you have a base model GT350/base model GT500, or if you own a GT350R or a GT500 Carbon Fiber Track Pack.
TO CONCLUDE THIS POINT, a no-numbers matching replacement engine cannot effect his future collector car value because he has no or little future collector car value in the first place.
If you wanted a collector car, then you should’ve bought an R model. This is a fact! Auctions and R model prices have shown and have proven that.
There is a reason why R models and Carbon Track Packages demand a premium when buying from new. They have more exclusive parts and they are rarer—for those cars, I would agree with you on the replacement engines, but like I said before, a base model’s future market value is not the same as a R-model or a 500 Carbon Track Package.
So to consider arguing for a Buyback because it does not have the numbers matching engine for a vehicle that is so numerous that it is never going to be considered as a collector car, is bad advise in my opinion. It would also be bad advice if I told a base model owner “don’t drive your car and keep it at super low miles because you could flip it.” Can you sell it for a profit? Yes. For a large profit that you’re seeing with low miles 350R? Hell no. Most likely you will get more or about as much as you paid for it.
The only argument that I could see towards this is if the OP is only a short term owner. If he’s looking to possibly flip the car in a couple years then I can see the argument.
As for your own experience in helping people which I assume you’ve already gone through the same process at some time in your life. All I can tell you is that so have I.
The documentation that you cut and pasted from other documents or a document that you have or that you sourced still say exactly the same thing: there’s three options here either a 30 days, or they cannot fix the vehicle, or the vehicles has been back to the dealership multiple times for the same issue without a solution being found.
So your options in that situation are either a) Ford fixes the vehicle; b) Ford replaces the vehicle; or c) Ford buys the car back in which situation they usually try to look at reduction of value based on miles before the issue occurred which is something that you have to negotiate with and if you disagree, then you go grab a lawyer and you go to court and try to fight them for what you believe your car is worth.
In the situation, with this particular car, they have a fix for his vehicle, so option (a) is the solution that Ford will go with. Unless a replacement engine cannot be sourced in a fast enough time frame, he is fine here.
On the point replacement, (b) Ford has no replacement 350s. And like I said before, trust me, I know.
If you cannot do ( a) Or (b) then you’re left with (c) a buyback.
So I’m really not sure why you’re posting all of that information because I literally said all of that in my posts, as well as also post a link to California lemon law.
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