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Manual VS Auto

dn1984

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School me, please. When they first came out I thought it was a great concept. What about them fails to live up to the expectation? Are they fragile? I honestly have spent no time in one or even reading reviews.
typical belt driven CVTs are extremely fragile and they just have terrible driving characteristics. even with the fake shift tuning they still have a massive rubber band effect and are extremely laggy
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Norm Peterson

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i'll never buy a CVT car, i don't care what it is
Neither will I. In fact, the last two "family car" choices have been made in large part because of CVTs. 2001 Nissan Maxima to 2010 Subaru Legacy GT because the Max went to CVT, Legacy GT to WRX because the Legacy went fully CVT.

Good cars that have gone to a very unsporting-like transmission.


Norm
 
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WildHorse

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there's no way an M6 2nd gen beats an A10 3rd gen
Then you must live a REALLY sheltered life. Haha. You don't have to believe it. Whatever his settings were, ain't my problem. He wanted it, he got it.
 
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luc

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Neither will I. In fact, the last two "family car" choices have been made in large part because of CVTs. 2001 Nissan Maxima to 2010 Subaru Legacy GT because the Max went to CVT, Legacg GT to WRX because the Legacy went fully CVT.

Good cars that have gone to a very unsporting-like transmission.


Norm
I remember driving a Daf with variomatic in the early 70 in Paris. Total piece of crap
 

Copperhead73

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Then you must live a REALLY sheltered life. Haha. You don't have to believe it. Whatever his settings were, ain't my problem. He wanted it, he got it.
Was it a slow convertible?
 

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Norm Peterson

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School me, please. When they first came out I thought it was a great concept. What about them fails to live up to the expectation? Are they fragile? I honestly have spent no time in one or even reading reviews.
In theory, a CVT (with proper programming) should be able to do a better job of keeping an engine at or very close to peak power than any transmission that features discrete gear ratios.

But they drive a lot more like the way a motorboat drives, with engine revs mare likely to be out of sync with vehicle acceleration than anywhere close to being in sync. In fact, this behavior has even been termed 'motorboating'. Doesn't sound or feel like the engine is rigidly connected to the wheels because it really isn't. It's something you'd have to adapt yourself to.

Some, perhaps many of today's CVTs are programming discrete 'steps' into the continuously variable part, at least under some driver range selections/drive modes. This is most likely so the CVT doesn't feel as much different from more conventional automatic transmissions.

There's an older fellow on one of the Maxima forums who has owned CVT-equipped Maximas, and his description is that you have to adjust yourself to the CVT's nuances. That it's soft off the line (likely a fair amount of torque management going on while the drive side pulley is operating down near its smallest radius - limitations of friction and the amount of drive "belt" wrap being involved) but it does pick up nicely at more normal cruising speeds. I suspect that what you do with the throttle makes a lot of difference in what the CVT chooses to do for you.

Early CVTs were somewhat fragile and very expensive to fix (IIRC, Nissan replaced rather than repaired).


Norm
 

IPOGT

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I will say because my Mustang is my DD, when I drive something else with an automatic, I try to put my left foot down only to realize

"there's nothing to do, and then I get nervous when I start it that it'll lurch because I don't have the clutch in".
That happened to me after driving a manual for 5 years. It's irrational, yet oddly uncomfortable at the same time.
 

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School me, please. When they first came out I thought it was a great concept. What about them fails to live up to the expectation? Are they fragile? I honestly have spent no time in one or even reading reviews.
The biggest issue with how they operate is they require the engine to speed up significantly before they "shift" up.
 

Vlad Soare

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School me, please. When they first came out I thought it was a great concept. What about them fails to live up to the expectation? Are they fragile? I honestly have spent no time in one or even reading reviews.
Fragility aside, they are horrible to drive. You have a permanent feeling that the car is broken, there's absolutely no relationship between the engine's revving speed and the car's acceleration. When starting from a standstill you press the throttle pedal and feel like nothing happens, although the vehicle is actually accelerating. Kickdown when you want to overtake someone is even worse - you press the pedal to the floor, and for one second nothing happens, then it takes another second for the engine to get to high revs, then it stays there at relatively constant (very high) rpm for the rest of the time. You hear the engine screaming continuously and constantly and have no idea how hard you're actually accelerating. An external observer would be able to measure your acceleration rate and to prove that technically speaking it's perfect, but you don't feel anything.
I drove one of the better ones (an Audi, I think S7 if memory serves, quite an expensive car), and hated it. I'd never buy anything like that. If all the cars in the world had CVTs I'd give up driving and would take the bus.
We can discuss MT versus AT for as long as we want. But CVT versus anything else... heck, even walking is better than a CVT. :D
 
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Sivi70980

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No, black hardtop with white stripes.
The answer is in you sig block. That oil separator gave you at least 500 more duck power.

Curious, how long were you driving around the person before you knew it was an A10? Stoplight or 2? I imagine a freeway race you wouldn't know till the race started and their exhaust was louder than yours. Basically, for no good reason at all, I'd like all the details...because reading about a race while at work is the best.
 

dn1984

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Then you must live a REALLY sheltered life. Haha. You don't have to believe it. Whatever his settings were, ain't my problem. He wanted it, he got it.
anything can happen on the street, at the track that's a different story
The answer is in you sig block. That oil separator gave you at least 500 more duck power.

Curious, how long were you driving around the person before you knew it was an A10? Stoplight or 2? I imagine a freeway race you wouldn't know till the race started and their exhaust was louder than yours. Basically, for no good reason at all, I'd like all the details...because reading about a race while at work is the best.
the other guy, if he was really A10, probably had severe traction issues or something like that. anything can happen on the street from a stop
 

WildHorse

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The answer is in you sig block. That oil separator gave you at least 500 more duck power.

Curious, how long were you driving around the person before you knew it was an A10? Stoplight or 2? I imagine a freeway race you wouldn't know till the race started and their exhaust was louder than yours. Basically, for no good reason at all, I'd like all the details...because reading about a race while at work is the best.
My oil separator gives phuk all for Horsepower. He was driving a 18 or 19 GT, and I know the difference between a auto and a stick.. I didn't have to ask, didn't care. Man some of you A10 guys get butt hurt.
 

Sivi70980

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Very true. From a dig, I once pulled on a GT3 RS...up until about the 1/8. Then he went bye bye on me. We still chatted at the next light, and he said he was surprised how fast my car was. He probably didn't go full bore on me, until he realized I was pulling away.
Soooo, legit story here. A friend had an 07 V6 mustang. We were at a light next to a scooter of sorts. We joked about racing it (scooter didn't know) and when the light hit green, he stalled. We sat there in laughter (99% mine) as the scooter putted away. 10ish years later and it's still one of the first things I bring up when we check in.

As far as me in my sllllooooowwww M6, I've really only raced my previous car. Both manuals and we were neck and neck too about Mexico. Stang bone stock, Mini Cooper JCW 90% bolt on with cams and stage 2 tune. Now that my windows are tinted and some badges are removed, I'll likely smoke him.

And an attempt to make this post relevant to the topic (not sure it matters at this point) I'll likely be renting an A10 GT here in Colorado when the weather turns so I'll be "learning" to drive the auto more.
 

Sivi70980

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My oil separator gives phuk all for Horsepower. He was driving a 18 or 19 GT, and I know the difference between a auto and a stick.. I didn't have to ask, didn't care. Man some of you A10 guys get butt hurt.
Nope, butt not hurting in the least. Legit want to here about the race, but whatever man lol. For the record I am in fact in the manual crowd, been my preference for the last 20 years. Hard to judge emotion and/or intent via text, all good.
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