2017 gt350 engine failure

[Minn19]

:lol: And you're ignoring the engineering and manufacturing side of it. Also, "high" performance instances have typically been with blown motors as the "jerk" from the higher amount of torque is what is associated with failure. Not so much the RPMs or the NVH.

https://www.lmengines.com/mod-motor-oil-pump-failures/

Can someone provide an example of a billet component used on a mass (10k +) production engine elsewhere?

Actually no I'm not. I've taken in all the info here and read elsewhere about this.

I'll counter your "show me" with a show me another engine that has had the sustained amounts of NVH in a production motor like the Voodoo has.

Ford plain and simply should've put the upgraded pump in. Nothing wrong with better safe than sorry with such a vital part and for a relatively low cost.

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[Voodooo]

We'll never know the truth unfortunately, and its hard to say what is acceptably in their books from a profit standpoint. You really think that 270 engines are going to fail (based on the 18000 you projected) as a direct result of the OPG failing? I can see that many or more failing within the warranty period, but for a multitude of reasons rather than all due to a singular cause such as the OPG.



Scott, while it does show some "weakness" in that manner, it is 100% irrelevant to the design. It is like saying concrete is very weak because it has terrible tensile strength, when it made to be strong under compression forces. Or like saying paper is weak because you can rip it in half, but try pulling on each ends, see how easy it is to pull apart under tension.

Every part is designed with a specific application in mind, and scrutinizing it under that manner isn't relative to the items intended purpose or design in any way, as you said yourself.

By no means am I saying that what you witnessed was a good thing! haha just that because you saw it fail easily in that manner, doesn't correlate in any way to its application in the fuel pump.

Justin,
Save your breath!
The OPG was designed for a 5.0!
Not a flat plane 5.2 that has proven to have vibrations, higher rpm and hp. The exact same causes of OPG failures on 5.0 with blowers!

 

[Voodooo]

Actually no I'm not. I've taken in all the info here and read elsewhere about this.

I'll counter your "show me" with a show me another engine that has had the sustained amounts of NVH in a production motor like the Voodoo has.

Ford plain and simply should've put the upgraded pump in. Nothing wrong with better safe than sorry with such a vital part and for a relatively low cost.

Exactly!!!!
You over kill a OPG. It's the fking heart of the engin! You do not skimp on such an important part! They should of made it stronger. Fk a piece of oak would of been a better choice.

 

[mustang1]

I have a 2007 Mercedes Benz CLS550 with 75,000 miles. An MB vendor sold them a cam chain tensioner with inferior metallurgical properties and 100% of them wore out in 50,000 to 100,000 miles. Even though my warranty had expired, MB paid the bill to pull my engine, replace the tensioner, gears and cam chain. $7000 bill. They even gave me a loaner.
Wanna know who paid that bill really? The vendor. Every last nickel. 20,000 engines affected.
That's how it works in the big leagues.

This is fine for a Benz but many GT350 owners want to keep their original engines. Considering the engine has the "hand built by" plate, and a degree of collectable status. Other parts might fail and result in a new engine but an OPG should not be one of them.

 

[KiLLeR2001]

If a GT350 bursts into flames and melts to the ground the OPG should be the only part remaining in-tact and in pristine condition. And inside the core of this OPG, are the secrets of the universe.

 

[Minn19]

If a GT350 bursts into flames and melts to the ground the OPG should be the only part remaining in-tact and in pristine condition. And inside the core of this OPG, are the secrets of the universe.

:lol:

 

[cosmo]

Actually no I'm not. I've taken in all the info here and read elsewhere about this.

I'll counter your "show me" with a show me another engine that has had the sustained amounts of NVH in a production motor like the Voodoo has.

Ford plain and simply should've put the upgraded pump in. Nothing wrong with better safe than sorry with such a vital part and for a relatively low cost.

The NVH isn't the primary concern you nut. It's the force (torque) on the crankshaft. The motors which typically blow their gears, supercharged right? What does a supercharger drive off of, a belt right? What is that attached to?

Oh, that's right, the damper. Right behind and directly attached is the OPG. You've heard that driving a blower requires engine power, right? That's because it's in effect torquing the crankshaft to drive the supercharger belt.

Throttle the engine and the acceleration of the crankshaft is one way, let off the gas and the blower starts to "drag" on the crank accelerating it the other way. That's torsion, right on the gear. A mass amount of torsion in comparison to a naturally aspirated engine because typically the only other force acting on the OPG in this instance is the inertia/friction of the motor and the drivetrain, now you're adding the blower belt.

You act as if because it's engineered that it's perfect. It's a cheap ass powdered metal OPG that's more than likely made in China.

No one is saying it's perfectly engineered. Nothing is. Not even the mighty Voodooo could perfectly engineer anything. The failure rate of this isn't large enough for them to price it out.

By the way, I guarantee you that my motor will last longer and without as many problems as your motor EVEN IF you replace your OPG. Know why? Because you swapped out your headers which had key dampers on them, effectively removing some of the "patent pending" balancing shit Ford put on the Voodoo.

 

[machsmith]

I'll just say it right now. FK powdered metal parts. The only time I'd feel comfortable with anything powdered metal would POSSIBLY be a toilet paper dispenser...
Nah, I take that back... it makes me nervous there too...I don't want it to jam up when I'm in need. So... does the shit have any use at all, I suppose it does, if one wants junk laying around...or something to occupy space.
" We produce powdered metal parts, because we like to occupy space" catchy slogan

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

And here we are yet again and you still admit it's been a few failed engines, yet you still have no comment as to why they failed. You keep saying it's too expensive to use a billet gear from fords point, and yet you assume it's something else that's the cause. Then tell me old great one, what is it that is causing the engine to fail? After all you keep saying you believe it's something else. Even if it is something else that part has also been tested and made from ideal material. Correct? And it could also be the root cause.

I would actually bet a fair $ on assembly error. Design testing doesn't take into account errors when workers are actually hand assembling the engine. The engines that are tested for durability, you know darn well they are put together perfectly.

This is probably one of Ford's first times utilizing a hand-built approach like this, whereas other companies like AMG for example have people that are absolute master engine builders where having a hand-built engine is actualyl a highly beneficial aspect. I see having a hand built engine from Ford as being a potential liability more than a benefit, as those workers have not spent their lives assembling these engines by hand.

 

[Minn19]

The NVH isn't the primary concern you nut. It's the force (torque) on the crankshaft. The motors which typically blow their gears, supercharged right? What does a supercharger drive off of, a belt right? What is that attached to?

Oh, that's right, the damper. Right behind and directly attached is the OPG. You've heard that driving a blower requires engine power, right? That's because it's in effect torquing the crankshaft to drive the supercharger belt.

Throttle the engine and the acceleration of the crankshaft is one way, let off the gas and the blower starts to "drag" on the crank accelerating it the other way. That's torsion, right on the gear. A mass amount of torsion in comparison to a naturally aspirated engine because typically the only other force acting on the OPG in this instance is the inertia/friction of the motor and the drivetrain, now you're adding the blower belt.

Vibrations aren't a concern? This engine has shown to vibrate quite a few things lose even when torqued properly.

Let's make this simple. I'm not saying a billet OPG won't fail because all parts can fail. But, it has a higher margin of safety to not fail. So aside from cost and assuming it is a reasonable (mythical) $500 on top of the MSRP.......what is the downside of using one? Because using the current one looks like it has a lot more downsides.

 

[machsmith]

These builders aren't newbies...maybe a couple new faces over the years. They don't have $10/hr minimum wage workers assembling these things. The niche line builders have hand assembled many of the SVT motors since 2008, some are the same people that assembled these. I haven't ever heard of engine issues with those...other than a stray couple. I'd go so far as to say it isn't assembly thats causing the problems. I'd say its engineering and parts/quality control. Lets face it, its not hard to put in a part from a diagram and do it over, and over and over again. Sure it gets boring, but its easy and I just don't think these are build errors. You drop in a piece here, you press a part there, you torque down the bolts. Sure, I could see a couple being builder error. I would prefer it all automated as well, but this is what we get. You would think it would be better built by hand...but that includes operator error.

 

[Voodooo]

The NVH isn't the primary concern you nut. It's the force (torque) on the crankshaft. The motors which typically blow their gears, supercharged right? What does a supercharger drive off of, a belt right? What is that attached to?

Oh, that's right, the damper. Right behind and directly attached is the OPG. You've heard that driving a blower requires engine power, right? That's because it's in effect torquing the crankshaft to drive the supercharger belt.

Throttle the engine and the acceleration of the crankshaft is one way, let off the gas and the blower starts to "drag" on the crank accelerating it the other way. That's torsion, right on the gear. A mass amount of torsion in comparison to a naturally aspirated engine because typically the only other force acting on the OPG in this instance is the inertia/friction of the motor and the drivetrain, now you're adding the blower belt.



No one is saying it's perfectly engineered. Nothing is. Not even the mighty Voodooo could perfectly engineer anything. The failure rate of this isn't large enough for them to price it out, that's what we're trying to drill through your insanely thick skull.

By the way, I guarantee you that my motor will last longer and without as many problems as your motor EVEN IF you replace your OPG. Know why? Because you swapped out your headers which had key dampers on them, effectively removing some of the "patent pending" balancing shit Ford put on the Voodoo.

You think? Longer as in miles or time? I'll take that bet.

I have no issues with the exhaust or engine. But I'm also a firm believer or over kill. I've been talking to Peterson and Aviaid about going to a dry sump system. Power stroke diesels have the same exhaust dampers.

 

[machsmith]

say, why don't we get on facebook and ask that one niche builder what her thoughts are on why these engines are getting destroyed. Think she would spill any beans Haha, after getting reamed I'm sure, for dumping info about the FPC .

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

I'm done with this thread. To many blindsided people.
You act as if because it's engineered that it's perfect. It's a cheap ass powdered metal OPG that's more than likely made in China.

Well that's a little harsh. Just because we are willing to accept why Ford may have chosen to stick with this gear, and understand the possible reasons why they did it, doesn't make us blind. If anything, your apparent tantrum would indicate an unwillingness to accept that the real world and business doesn't work how you, or I for that matter, wish it would.

Understanding both sides of the equation doesn't make us blind, if anything you're being far too narrow minded. No one is acting like its perfect, but you're acting as if its made of paper, or as if some monkeys slapped the engine together. Not our fault you aren't willing to DISCUSS the other side of the coin without getting all up in arms over it.

I could also very well make a very stupid, generalized statement as well regarding mechanics, carpenters, ironworkers, _______ (you fill in the blank) etc. regarding a lack of technical knowledge on engineering design who have very incorrect and very opinionated views, but I don't think or believe in that BS. I prefer to work together with others who different experience/perspectives; you learn a lot more that way than having attaching ignorant stigmas to people based on their profession.

I think that's a poor attitude Scott, and not one befitting your character based on your other posts on this forum and how much you contribute here.

 

[Voodooo]

Well that's a little harsh. Just because we are willing to accept why Ford may have chosen to stick with this gear, and understand the possible reasons why they did it, doesn't make us blind. If anything, your apparent tantrum would indicate an unwillingness to accept that the real world and business doesn't work how you, or I for that matter, wish it would.

Understanding both sides of the equation doesn't make us blind, if anything you're being far too narrow minded. No one is acting like its perfect, but you're acting as if its made of paper, or as if some monkeys slapped the engine together. Not our fault you aren't willing to DISCUSS the other side of the coin without getting all up in arms over it.

I could also very well make a very stupid, generalized statement as well regarding mechanics, carpenters, ironworkers, _______ (you fill in the blank) etc. regarding a lack of technical knowledge on engineering design who have very incorrect and very opinionated views, but I don't think or believe in that BS. I prefer to work together with others who different experience/perspectives; you learn a lot more that way than having attaching ignorant stigmas to people based on their profession.

I think that's a poor attitude Scott, and not one befitting your character based on your other posts on this forum and how much you contribute here.

Justin,
Forgedwheeler said he strongly believes it's something else that's causing the engine to fail. I've asked him many times to make his thoughts clear. He won't. Why? Because he knows that what ever else may be the cause has also been tested and engineered. The whole fking engine has been engineered and tested. Parts fail. It's man made. What you fail to realize is the opg's since the dawn of the ford mod motor have alway had a bad reputation. Ford knows how the voodoo vibrates. They used a few bolts, valve train pieces and opg's from the 5.0. On a engine that in fords words "most powerful na production engine ever"
Why would you save a few pennies or dollars on something so important? Doesn't matter if it needed it or not. It has a bad history. Did ford put powdered metal opg's on the gt500?

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