2017 gt350 engine failure

[Voodooo]

Well that's a little harsh. Just because we are willing to accept why Ford may have chosen to stick with this gear, and understand the possible reasons why they did it, doesn't make us blind. If anything, your apparent tantrum would indicate an unwillingness to accept that the real world and business doesn't work how you, or I for that matter, wish it would.

Understanding both sides of the equation doesn't make us blind, if anything you're being far too narrow minded. No one is acting like its perfect, but you're acting as if its made of paper, or as if some monkeys slapped the engine together. Not our fault you aren't willing to DISCUSS the other side of the coin without getting all up in arms over it.

I could also very well make a very stupid, generalized statement as well regarding mechanics, carpenters, ironworkers, _______ (you fill in the blank) etc. regarding a lack of technical knowledge on engineering design who have very incorrect and very opinionated views, but I don't think or believe in that BS. I prefer to work together with others who different experience/perspectives; you learn a lot more that way than having attaching ignorant stigmas to people based on their profession.

I think that's a poor attitude Scott, and not one befitting your character based on your other posts on this forum and how much you contribute here.

I ageee. I'm sorry.

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[cosmo]

Vibrations aren't a concern? This engine has shown to vibrate quite a few things lose even when torqued properly.

Let's make this simple. I'm not saying a billet OPG won't fail because all parts can fail. But, it has a higher margin of safety to not fail. So aside from cost and assuming it is a reasonable (mythical) $500 on top of the MSRP.......what is the downside of using one? Because using the current one looks like it has a lot more downsides.

Stop dancing around what I'm saying. The stock vibrations are an issue, but in this case aren't the primary cause for failure of an OPG. Torque is. That's why we rarely hear of stock Coyote's failing their OPG (unless they bounce off rev limiter). Upgraded vehicles, typically supercharged, have this issue.

If you're stock, there are way more things that will likely cause an engine failure. Machining bits from the components not being thoroughly cleaned, cleanliness problems with hand assembly, wiring vibration (this engine is constantly vibrating, right? Wiggle a wiring harness for long periods of time and let me know how that goes), the OFA and lines disaster.

EDIT: Of course, I'd love billet gears. If I was building a track rat car, it would have billet gears. Occasional track use and street driving? Isn't necessary. Good forged PM is fine, everything else is scare tactics.

You think? Longer as in miles or time? I'll take that bet.

I have no issues with the exhaust or engine. But I'm also a firm believer or over kill. I've been talking to Peterson and Aviaid about going to a dry sump system. Power stroke diesels have the same exhaust dampers. Now get lost.
You don't even have a GT350.

Miles, obviously. You haven't even broken 300 miles in your GT350 yet, have you? Your WOT run in winter with your suspect headers in a lean-tuned GT350 did more "damage" to your engine already than people with 10k miles on theirs. Did you bump the rev limiter? I REALLY hope you didn't. Coming from someone who has intimate knowledge on the Voodoo, I really really hope you didn't.

You're trying to overkill the design. Dry sump was definitely a miss stock from Ford. Dampers in the pan can only do so much. Note: Ford doesn't design the engine strictly to be capable of modifications from the factory. There's safety margins in their design, which is eaten up by aftermarket modifications and how these engines survive aftermarket modifications. Design trickle down from premium models (i.e. Boss Roadrunner -> S550 Coyote motor) give higher performance thresholds.

 

[mustang1]

... EDIT: Of course, I'd love billet gears. If I was building a track rat car, it would have billet gears. Occasional track use and street driving? Isn't necessary. Good forged PM is fine, everything else is scare tactics.

You may not need billet gears but the GT350 has a lot of stuff you don't need. For example, the Tremec 3160 transmission. Why not just re-use the MT82 ? For occasional track use and street driving, the triple cone hybrid syncs, heat dissipation, and other fancy parts is over-engineering.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

Justin,
Forgedwheeler said he strongly believes it's something else that's causing the engine to fail. I've asked him many times to make his thoughts clear. He won't. Why? Because he knows that what ever else may be the cause has also been tested and engineered. The whole fking engine has been engineered and tested. Parts fail. It's man made. What all you blindsided people fail to realize is the opg's since the dawn of the ford mod motor have alway had a bad reputation. Ford knows how the voodoo vibrates. They used a few bolts, valve train pieces and opg's from the 5.0. On a engine that in fords words "most powerful na production engine ever"
Why would you save a few pennies or dollars on something so important? Doesn't matter if it needed it or not. It has a bad history. Did ford put powdered metal opg's on the gt500?

I agree with both of your views in that regard. I think it is very likely that many of the failures we have seen Could very well be something other than the OPG, while I also believe that the OPG's are highly suspect in these failures. I can't offer no real opinions or views on what directly caused the failures from either side as I don't have the knowledge, experience, or data from Ford on any of the failures. Perhaps Forged does have some ideas or opinions, and if he does I would like to hear them, as it may lead to some insight that we haven't previously considered.

I also agree on your mindset in regards to overkill, as I never do anything half ass. I wanted to protect the paint on my car for example, I didn't even consider doing a partial wrap, I Had to wrap the entire car to know it was all protected. The different bragging statements from Ford on the Voodoo was primarily for marketing purposes unfortunately. No doubt the team is very proud there of what they have accomplished, but obviously when you consider the performance/cost of the Voodoo/GT350, you know they haven't gone through the ringer to use all of the best components like higher end manufacturers and had to have cut corners in order to make the price tag what it is.

Don't know about the GT500, but would be interesting to know. Although that car was supercharged and who knows, could have had more vibrations going through the oil pump than in an NA Voodoo potentially!?!?

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

say, why don't we get on facebook and ask that one niche builder what her thoughts are on why these engines are getting destroyed. Think she would spill any beans Haha, after getting reamed I'm sure, for dumping info about the FPC .

Someone PM Michelle Bollard, anyone? :lol:

I think if they spill any more info, the next person will probably get canned

 

[mustang1]

... Did ford put powdered metal opg's on the gt500?

I asked about this a while back and someone said they are. But you could buy a gt500 oil pump and find out for yourself.

 

[cosmo]

You may not need billet gears but the GT350 has a lot of stuff you don't need. For example, the Tremec 3160 transmission. Why not just re-use the MT82 ? For occasional track use and street driving, the triple cone hybrid syncs, heat dissipation, and other fancy parts is over-engineering.

Likely because the MT82 is already a questionable transmission, and the gearing wouldn't be the best for the track times.

 

[Voodooo]

Stop dancing around what I'm saying. The stock vibrations are an issue, but in this case aren't the primary cause for failure of an OPG. Torque is. That's why we rarely hear of stock Coyote's failing their OPG (unless they bounce off rev limiter). Upgraded vehicles, typically supercharged, have this issue.

If you're stock, there are way more things that will likely cause an engine failure. Machining bits from the components not being thoroughly cleaned, cleanliness problems with hand assembly, wiring vibration (this engine is constantly vibrating, right? Wiggle a wiring harness for long periods of time and let me know how that goes), the OFA and lines disaster.

EDIT: Of course, I'd love billet gears. If I was building a track rat car, it would have billet gears. Occasional track use and street driving? Isn't necessary. Good forged PM is fine, everything else is scare tactics.



Miles, obviously. You haven't even broken 300 miles in your GT350 yet, have you? Your WOT run in winter with your suspect headers in a lean-tuned GT350 did more "damage" to your engine already than people with 10k miles on theirs. Did you bump the rev limiter? I REALLY hope you didn't. Coming from someone who has intimate knowledge on the Voodoo, I really really hope you didn't.

You're trying to overkill the design. Dry sump was definitely a miss stock from Ford. Dampers in the pan can only do so much. Note: Ford doesn't design the engine strictly to be capable of modifications from the factory. There's safety margins in their design, which is eaten up by aftermarket modifications and how these engines survive aftermarket modifications. Design trickle down from premium models (i.e. Boss Roadrunner -> S550 Coyote motor) give higher performance thresholds.

Hardly. I did not have a wot lean detonation.
Never bumped the rev limiter.
But thanks for assuming.

I am not overkilling the OPG issue by billet gears or a external wet/dry system. One thing GM did do right on the Z28 is to not skimp on the oiling system. I'm more than well enough aware of the safety margins. You can disagree all you like, but the use of powdered opg's in a engine of this caliber is ignorant. If you strongly believe vibrations and rpm have no effect on the opg's I'm sorry. We can agree to disagree.

 

[cosmo]

Hardly. I did not have a wot lean detonation.
Never bumped the rev limiter.
But thanks for assuming.

I am not overkilling the OPG issue by billet gears or a external wet/dry system. One thing GM did do right on the Z28 is to not skimp on the oiling system. I'm more than well enough aware of the safety margins. You can disagree all you like, but the use of powdered opg's in a engine of this caliber is ignorant. If you strongly believe vibrations and rpm have no effect on the opg's I'm sorry. We can agree to disagree.

I asked if you bumped the rev limiter. Didn't assume. But you talking about all the potential issues with OPG but you doing WOT runs in the winter with a tuned Voodoo is hypocritical. Lean detonation can impact the OPG, but the likely cold and thick oil is the real problem.

I didn't say the NVH and RPMs have no effect. If I did I misspoke. However, they aren't the critical issue with regards to OPG design. High torque changes are worse. Torque changes at high RPM exacerbate the issue.

 

[Voodooo]

I'll say this. Many of you tech owners bitched about the lack of track time because of no coolers. That's more of a choice. Some "not all" buyers chose the tech pack knowing it didn't have coolers. They bitch and complain still to this day.
Who's mistake was this to offer a track car without coolers? Fords.
Who's choice was it to offer a "track car" with undesirable OPG material? Ford.
I bought a track pack knowing it had coolers and was meant to be raced.
If goobers engine blows from normal street driving how are we the owner not to be concerned of a engine failure while racing?
I accept everything the car is. Panel fitment, paint, quality assembly, etc. I don't complain about that. But a poor choice of material for a heart? You believe it.

 

[Voodooo]

I asked if you bumped the rev limiter. Didn't assume. But you talking about all the potential issues with OPG but you doing WOT runs in the winter with a tuned Voodoo is hypocritical. Lean detonation can impact the OPG, but the likely cold and thick oil is the real problem.

I didn't say the NVH and RPMs have no effect. If I did I misspoke. However, they aren't the critical issue with regards to OPG design. High torque changes are worse. Torque changes at high RPM exacerbate the issue.

Where do you get this? Where did I run with a cold engine or cold oil? I never did that. Just because it was during the winter last year does not mean the temps were below 180

No I never hit the limiter.

Edit: thank you. You just proven my point. If the cold oil temps are the cause that would also point to the opg's being a weak link. I can get into my work truck any day. Any temp. Fire it up and drive down the road full throttle without issues of the opg's failing. Is it the right thing to do. No. But I'll bet they don't break also.

 

[Forgedwheeler]

If there is a direct connection between torque, load, vibration and the alleged OPG failure, wouldn't we see a preponderance of failures in engines that are raced? Lap after lap at WOT and near the rev limiter?
But that's not what we see. We see a small number of truly random engine failures. Some may even qualify as "garage queens" driven by owners who wouldn't know a race track from a McDonald's drive-thru.
Nope, I don't buy the OPG story, and all the posts in the world aren't going to bully me into judging this situation until the facts are in.
Sorry, that's how I roll. Innocent until proven guilty.

 

[mustang1]

Likely because the MT82 is already a questionable transmission, and the gearing wouldn't be the best for the track times.

You said that the stock OPG is fine for occasional track and street use. I could make the same case for the MT82. It may not be the best, in terms of fast shifting and heat dissipation but its good enough. Gearing can be improved at the rear differential. How is one part good enough and the other isn't ? Racing transmissions are expensive. Billet gear is cheap, at least when done at the factory.

 

[Voodooo]

If there is a direct connection between torque, load, vibration and the alleged OPG failure, wouldn't we see a preponderance of failures in engines that are raced? Lap after lap at WOT and near the rev limiter?
But that's not what we see. We see a small number of truly random engine failures. Some may even qualify as "garage queens" driven by owners who wouldn't know a race track from a McDonald's drive-thru.
Nope, I don't buy the OPG story, and all the posts in the world aren't going to bully me into judging this situation until the facts are in.
Sorry, that's how I roll. Innocent until proven guilty.

Nobody is "bullying you".
I keep asking you to explain your thoughts as you keep saying it's something else. And you purposely avoid it.

 

[unixadm]

344 posts, 19 of which are from the OP. What was this thread about again?

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