SCCA CAM-C Thread

[TeeLew]

if I’m not intending to touch rear toe off a proper rack (because its a pita and I’m just swapping front bit), do you still like strings?

do you need plates at all if you have strings (for toe anyway)?

the price is right on picking up strings for sure.

im a noob at doing my own measurements (other than camber), so send the info, its appreciated.

The reason to use strings is that it references all 4 tires to the chassis itself, not just each other. If you use plates, you are just referencing across the axle. It's easy to get the steering wheel off center or the the entire car crabbing if you get the toes staggered right to left across the axle even though the *total* value is correct.

I feel like the real answer to this deal is to make a video showing how to do the entire process. Hmmmm.

Putting the tires on trash bags makes a 'slip plate' which allows the tire to relax and gives better measurements.

I don't find it necessary to raise the car on supports. I have a couple chop-sawed wrenches and I can reach under the car with those. I am using J&M rear toe links. I open the jam nuts front and rear. After measuring/adjusting/measuring/adjusting several times, I carefully lock the jams. Get a measurement on the car after things are locked to make sure it didn't move.

Sponsored

 

[TeeLew]

Hey, Ewheels, didn't you get one of these kits? Want to team up and make a video?

 

[NightmareMoon]

The reason to use strings is that it references all 4 tires to the chassis itself, not just each other. If you use plates, you are just referencing across the axle. It's easy to get the steering wheel off center or the the entire car crabbing if you get the toes staggered right to left across the axle even though the *total* value is correct.

I feel like the real answer to this deal is to make a video showing how to do the entire process. Hmmmm.

Putting the tires on trash bags makes a 'slip plate' which allows the tire to relax and gives better measurements.

I don't find it necessary to raise the car on supports. I have a couple chop-sawed wrenches and I can reach under the car with those. I am using J&M rear toe links. I open the jam nuts front and rear. After measuring/adjusting/measuring/adjusting several times, I carefully lock the jams. Get a measurement on the car after things are locked to make sure it didn't move.

Yeah I think I get the gist.

To get into a situation where the car is crabbing, but the steering wheel is straight, you need the rear toe to be off axis (thrust angle), right?

... If the thrust angle is 0° and the steering wheel is straight and the car is not pulling to the side, then you should be pretty good, no? (assuming a tire isn't borked and your straight steering wheel isn't compensating for something mechanical like caster being uneven or a bad ball joint or etc etc). I've been in that situation before, so I see how strings are a good idea, but the most frequent things I'm expecting to be doing is just fixing the toe after a ride height or camber adjustment.

I picked up a string kit so I'll probably experiment with both. I'm very interested to see if these fancy toe plates with a camber gauge measure camber angles more accurately than my harbor freight digital angle gauge, which is usually off by a few annoying tenths at small angles like camber angles.

 

[kz]

I made 2x4's cut to 12", log cabined on top of each other, 2 in each direction. On the top crib, I have three 2x4's which gives a flat surface for the wheel to settle on.

You are correct, the trash bag allows the wheel to move freely.

Are you not afraid it will roll off them (front or back) ?

 

[kz]

Hey, Ewheels, didn't you get one of these kits? Want to team up and make a video?

Do it !

 

[WItoTX]

I don't find it necessary to raise the car on supports. I have a couple chop-sawed wrenches and I can reach under the car with those. I am using J&M rear toe links. I open the jam nuts front and rear. After measuring/adjusting/measuring/adjusting several times, I carefully lock the jams. Get a measurement on the car after things are locked to make sure it didn't move.

I tried this once based on your input. I forgot which way to turn the toe, and next think I know, everything is so jacked up that I just put the car on blocks and said never again.

I don't change toe enough to commit that info to my memory. I wrote on the toe link which way to rotate for toe in, but I can't see it from the ground.

Are you not afraid it will roll off them (front or back) ?

The front wheels (hard to see), have blocks. The axle I am not messing with is blocked. I should have shared that bit of info. I also leave the car in gear.

 

[TeeLew]

To get into a situation where the car is crabbing, but the steering wheel is straight, you need the rear toe to be off axis (thrust angle), right?

It will pull to one side if the rear is straight and the front is offset. You have to hold the steering straight against the caster.

 

[kz]

Thought I'd drop a note on a Cleveland ProSolo - week after Packwood which ended up in a most awful way possible - SCCA staff and Nothern Ohio region really pulled off a good event at a brand new site on a short notice after Toledo became unavailable.

Short of pretty brutal bump (especially for stiffer sprung cars - some were leaving ground completely), turned out to be perfectly good site for a Pro.

CAM was relatively small class, it was first time I finished with no red lights (and bunch of decent launches in .500s and 600s) - ended up 2nd, losing 1st place to a CAM-T Camaro with a good driver and quite a bit of weight advantage - on raw was faster but there's index into all that.
Had a plan where to go faster and failed at it miserably Sunday morning, so all on me.

Car is working really well I think with stiffer springs - course had some good sweepers and fast (~65 mph going into it) slalom - rear was rock solid, not a hint of oversteer at the entry or exit (short of some dumb throttle inputs).
Front needs more grip so it's probably time to start thinking about real splitter but might be able to get Anderson hood (one with a GT500-like vent) for really good price (have local guys being reps so if anyone wants one, I might be able to have them order one too).

Anyway - real happy with the result, got contingency cert from Hawk after I finally put their stickers on the car so really nothing to complain about.

Next weekend is Peru Pro with bunch of GM guys showing up, including that magic 1LE Turbo 4 Camaro with all kinds of their custom e-diff, damper and engine calibrations.

 

[Dana Pants]

My front Koni yellows are folding due to brake torque (Both of them). I sent an email requesting warranty coverage for this and have “engineered” a piece of metal to go under the upper bolt and maybe prevent this from re-occurring.

hopefully they just cover it. Otherwise I need to make decisions on the front suspension.

What coilovers are the happy balance of cost, robustness and performance these days? I would normally go for redshift but fear they might not deliver due to financial distress.

Update: one strut let out the ghost upon disassembly and my re-enforcements fit fine. My car grew 3/4 inch toe out at the same camber, so things must have been pretty bent in there.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Today
- reset the front coilover ride height for changed springs
- measured toe with toe plates (not pictured), looked like very slight toe out.
- cut tubing and assembled the Caliper Garage string kit
- measured front and rear toe with string. Rear was about what it should be from the last alignment on a rack (slight rear toe in) and front about matched what the toe plates said (ever so slight toe out).

I don't think I'm gonna ever be messing with the rear camber and toe settings myself in the garage. I'll pay to have those corrected when I need it... but now I think I will confidently check it so I'll know when I need to take it to somebody with a proper lift/rack.

Front, I think I won't mind doing those adjustments myself going forward.. Hopefully quickly save enough $$ and time to pay for the tools. Spent ~400 on plates w/ camber gauge (220), string kit (70), conduit tubing (20), and properly sized wrenches for the front toe bits. (80). That's less than the price of 3 alignments at a decent shop, I figure.

 

[WItoTX]

I was trying to figure out what was hanging from your ceiling above the trunk. That wing is massive haha...glad the alignment kit worked out well for you.

 

[TeeLew]

Looks perfect! Putting it on an alignment machine can't do any better than what you have right there (although fish line instead of actual string would be a small improvement). At this point, it's just a matter of how picky the guy setting the alignment wants to be.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I was trying to figure out what was hanging from your ceiling above the trunk. That wing is massive haha...glad the alignment kit worked out well for you.

That wing is chaotiic evil, if you even remotely try to bend down near the back half of the car and the endplates on that wing will try to stab you. My buddy has a its sister prototype and scars to prove it. They’re not that sharp, they just stick out.

Its like owning a cat.

 

[mustanghammer]

That wing is chaotiic evil, if you even remotely try to bend down near the back half of the car and the endplates on that wing will try to stab you. My buddy has a its sister prototype and scars to prove it. They’re not that sharp, they just stick out.

Its like owning a cat.

Yeah noticed the same thing when I put a 56" wide wing on my RX7. Got me a couple of times when I was working on it next to the trailer. I think some fluorescent pool noodles might be the ticket for protection from the end plates.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Yeah noticed the same thing when I put a 56" wide wing on my RX7. Got me a couple of times when I was working on it next to the trailer. I think some fluorescent pool noodles might be the ticket for protection from the end plates.

Good idea. Pool noodles FTW, and they'll probably remove themselves at speed if forgotten

Sponsored