SCCA CAM-C Thread

[NightmareMoon]

Did Peter drive the car? No

stock tire sizes in front you say? Yes, 305/30/19 front and 315/30/19 rear

If your tires are square (yours arent quite square, but close), then swaybars and shock settings are usually how we'll dial things in. (well, that and properly trail braking). Driving does have a lot to do with it. If you overwhelm the front tires on turnin with just a bit too much braking in combination with turnin, or if you do the opposite, and just try to turn without some weight transfer forward, well the result is plowing understeer. To get the front to grip you need the right transfer of weight to progressively load up the front corner.

As for hardware, I think the ecoboost rear bar is just too small compared to a aftermarket front bar on the middle setting. If you have adjustable shocks, try stiffening the rear rebound, but if the bar balance is off by too much it may not get all the way there.

So soften the front bar and if you can adjust shocks, stiffen the rear rebound. If that leaves you wanting, then shop for a rear bar. Something like the GT350R rear bar maybe, or an aftermarket bar on the soft setting.

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[SteveW]

If your tires are square (yours arent quite square, but close), then swaybars and shock settings are usually how we'll dial things in. (well, that and properly trail braking). Driving does have a lot to do with it. If you overwhelm the front tires on turnin with just a bit too much braking in combination with turnin, or if you do the opposite, and just try to turn without some weight transfer forward, well the result is plowing understeer. To get the front to grip you need the right transfer of weight to progressively load up the front corner.

As for hardware, I think the ecoboost rear bar is just too small compared to a aftermarket front bar on the middle setting. If you have adjustable shocks, try stiffening the rear rebound, but if the bar balance is off by too much it may not get all the way there.

So soften the front bar and if you can adjust shocks, stiffen the rear rebound. If that leaves you wanting, then shop for a rear bar. Something like the GT350R rear bar maybe, or an aftermarket bar on the soft setting.

Good stuff ^

The comment about how the car used to rotate but now it doesn't leads me to the PSA @kz posted a few comments up about: check your car. Many of us have had these cars for years now so, don't rule out the possibility a shock(s) have gone bad, something has come loose and so on.

 

[TeeLew]

Did Peter drive the car? No

stock tire sizes in front you say? Yes, 305/30/19 front and 315/30/19 rear

Pick a corner where the car has acted like you want previously, but didn't have the appropriate qualities now. Really pick that corner apart for us from behind the wheel starting at brake application.

Here's my quandry. You stiffened the front, and I have not found that increasing front spring hurts front grip. You added rear spring, which I have felt reduce rear grip. You added RARB from disco, I've also felt that change and it increases oversteer. Then, on top of that, you added a 1/2" of rake to the chassis, which about 8 noticeable steps less entry stability/more oversteer.

So you've done a bunch of stuff to free the car up and now it understeers more? That doesn't really make sense, does it?

I need more info before I'm going to say to make further changes to roll couple. I think you might have tipped it over already.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Pick a corner where the car has acted like you want previously, but didn't have the appropriate qualities now. Really pick that corner apart for us from behind the wheel starting at brake application.

Here's my quandry. You stiffened the front, and I have not found that increasing front spring hurts front grip. You added rear spring, which I have felt reduce rear grip. You added RARB from disco, I've also felt that change and it increases oversteer. Then, on top of that, you added a 1/2" of rake to the chassis, which about 8 noticeable steps less entry stability/more oversteer.

So you've done a bunch of stuff to free the car up and now it understeers more? That doesn't really make sense, does it?

I need more info before I'm going to say to make further changes to roll couple. I think you might have tipped it over already.

I find when the tires are getting old (heat cycles and wear) understeer results far more than oversteer. Fronts tend to get more heat cycling than the rears.

 

[NightmareMoon]

In other news, got to take a novice's GT500 for a spin (no, I did not literally spin). Car was only on his street tires - 305 all-season fronts and 305 MP4S rears.

Yep, very difficult to handle the power on those tires and an asphalt lot. I didn't get calibrated to the go-pedal in the one run I took. When I tried to lean into it exiting corners for the straights and it was immediately sideways. The power felt controllable, but would take a very fine touch to power out of corners with the kind of control you'd need.

Nose felt heavy in a slalom that tightened up at the end, but not surprising with the all-seasons on the front.

 

[VictorH]

Pick a corner where the car has acted like you want previously, but didn't have the appropriate qualities now. Really pick that corner apart for us from behind the wheel starting at brake application.

Here's my quandry. You stiffened the front, and I have not found that increasing front spring hurts front grip. You added rear spring, which I have felt reduce rear grip. You added RARB from disco, I've also felt that change and it increases oversteer. Then, on top of that, you added a 1/2" of rake to the chassis, which about 8 noticeable steps less entry stability/more oversteer.

So you've done a bunch of stuff to free the car up and now it understeers more? That doesn't really make sense, does it?

I need more info before I'm going to say to make further changes to roll couple. I think you might have tipped it over already.

Yes, I made a number of changes to the car. I'm telling you what I am experiencing now.
The driver hasn't changed. What's more likely, the driver's style changed suddenly or something of the multitude of things since the last track event made the difference (different track, but now the slow corners are a problem when not previously)?
I'm only asking for ideas and possible solutions as to why my experience in this vehicle has changed.

Tire were fresh, no track event and only 500 street mile Cup2s all around. Running same starting pressures and off-track pressures

 

[VictorH]

One other item, not sure it's relevant or not but Friday track day overnight and in the AM was very wet and rainy. Dried out in the afternoon and by mid-afternoon completely dry with good traction, so all day Friday was running my street tires. No problems rotating the car in the wet, nor in the dry. Only when I changed to Cup2, the next day, was no longer able to get the car to rotate. So, there's something with the balance that is now off and for whatever reason, exacerbated by higher grip tires.

 

[TeeLew]

Yes, I made a number of changes to the car. I'm telling you what I am experiencing now.
The driver hasn't changed. What's more likely, the driver's style changed suddenly or something of the multitude of things since the last track event made the difference (different track, but now the slow corners are a problem when not previously)?
I'm only asking for ideas and possible solutions as to why my experience in this vehicle has changed.

Tire were fresh, no track event and only 500 street mile Cup2s all around. Running same starting pressures and off-track pressures

Copy that. You probably need to get about a 30mm rear bar and 1500`s across the rear.

That out to make the m0therf*kker turn. Have fun.

 

[mavisky]

Had a great weekend. Made some spring, bar, and alignment upgrades over the last month and won CAM-C and finished 5th overall in raw times at our event with the Atlanta region. Car is still full weight with all interior and 0 weight loss efforts.

Current Setup:
Steeda Dual Rate Magneride Springs
Steeda Competition Swaybar Setup
Steeda Adjustable Swaybar Endlinks F&R
Steeda G-Trac 2 Point Front Brace
Steeda IRS Subframe Brace
Steeda IRS Alignment Dowels
Steeda Polyurethane Vertical Links
Steeda Camber Plates
Steeda Rear Camber Adjustment Kit
Steeda Low Profile Jacking Rails

Apex 19x11 EC-7 Wheels
Kumho V730 - 305/30-19

6" front chassis mounted splitter with GT500 style splitter fences
10" rear lexan spoiler
Verus rear diffuser
Trackspec GT4 style hood vents

stock drivetrain with resonator delete

 

[kz]

About that resonator delete...
This weekend in St. Louis I was allegedly blowing 103db (never was even at the 97db warning before) and 102.1 dB in a quiet mode - have h-pipe instead of resonator. Guys with stock FS Mach 1 also blew 102 in a quiet mode with a _stock_ exhaust...

So if you want to feel like one of those people getting tickets in CA with a stock car, come to SCCA National event.... (+ sound steward was really special)

(ended up 3rd despite having to coast by sound meter to not end up DSQed on what effectively was a full throttle straight aka two cone slalom).

 

[mavisky]

About that resonator delete...
This weekend in St. Louis I was allegedly blowing 103db (never was even at the 97db warning before) and 102.1 dB in a quiet mode - have h-pipe instead of resonator. Guys with stock FS Mach 1 also blew 102 in a quiet mode with a _stock_ exhaust...

So if you want to feel like one of those people getting tickets in CA with a stock car, come to SCCA National event.... (+ sound steward was really special)

(ended up 3rd despite having to coast by sound meter to not end up DSQed on what effectively was a full throttle straight aka two cone slalom).

With the GT350 I also have the AWE switchpath exhaust controller installed so I can force the valves closed and keep them closed for my runs if needed. I assume the Mach 1 and GT both open the valves above 4,000rpm the way the GT350 does from the factory.

 

[kz]

With the GT350 I also have the AWE switchpath exhaust controller installed so I can force the valves closed and keep them closed for my runs if needed. I assume the Mach 1 and GT both open the valves above 4,000rpm the way the GT350 does from the factory.

I figured out a way to keep them closed - set the exhaust to quiet mode and pull the fuse 34 - it was a Sunday morning experiment - worked both on mine and Mach 1 - nonetheless - I am convinced it was a meter issue, not an exhaust issue.

 

[mavisky]

I figured out a way to keep them closed - set the exhaust to quiet mode and pull the fuse 34 - it was a Sunday morning experiment - worked both on mine and Mach 1 - nonetheless - I am convinced it was a meter issue, not an exhaust issue.

For whatever reason, in my car when I try that I get a drive mode select error which locks me into "normal" mode for my throttle, steering, and most importantly my Magneride and stabilitrac/tcs settings.

 

[WItoTX]

I figured out a way to keep them closed - set the exhaust to quiet mode and pull the fuse 34 - it was a Sunday morning experiment - worked both on mine and Mach 1 - nonetheless - I am convinced it was a meter issue, not an exhaust issue.

Man I would hazard a guess it's your car. I hit 97 routinely on my bone stock exhaust. 5 more dB from the 5.0 and with an H-pipe instead of resonators certainly seems achievable.

For whatever reason, in my car when I try that I get a drive mode select error which locks me into "normal" mode for my throttle, steering, and most importantly my Magneride and stabilitrac/tcs settings.

'19 and later Ford changed programming so that the driver could still switch modes after pulling the fuse. Since you have an '18, there is a workaround. You can pull that fuse, and change your shocks, steering and advancetrak independently. And that works great until your car decides you have pushed past its limit, and turns them back on for you after the first corner.

 

[NightmareMoon]

@mavisky Car looks great.

I had a decent weekend at the Beeville Tour.. Could only manage 3rd. Otis in his ZL1 1LE still gives me fits, and Hedderick codriving was very fast driving Fletcher's car like he stole it.

Some situational things put me at a mild disadvantage that were out of my control, but 2nd place was achievable. To beat Otis, this mustang will need $$,$$$ of hardware. A better diff at least with different gearing, and probably more of power too.

My new fuzzy codriver was a bit of a distraction too.

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