Is it worth doing E85 kit

[Ahung12]

Bob Loblaw lobs another law bomb. Thanks!

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[wingnutt]

Bob Loblaw lobs another law bomb. Thanks!

he’s a man of few words

 

[honeybadger]

Used to be common knowledge…in the turbo 4cylinder world we would run e30 on race nights, it was so good that we had charts taped inside the fuel door to get the right mix. But couldn’t run anything more that that on the stock fuel systems back then

4 cyl? what happened to the other half of the motor?

 

[wingnutt]

4 cyl? what happened to the other half of the motor?

lol, I come from a long line of turbo 4s

Capri RS turbo
Omini GLHS turbo
Shelby Charger turbo
Shelby Daytona turbo
Talon TSI turbo
Focus ST1 turbo
Focus ST3 turbo

 

[galaxy]

4 cyl? what happened to the other half of the motor?

This…

 

[engineermike]

The ethanol blends in the test were created using 100% ethanol mixed with government-certified high octane gasoline. Let's see what gas station "e85" does at different ratios.
I'd like to see some testing done on a Coyote engine, aftermarket supercharger, higher boost pressures, real-world fuel. Are the numbers different on a 16 or 20 psi boosted coyote? Get some real-world data.

Of course we’d all love to see such a specific test, but this paper answers a lot of questions and makes some valid and applicable points. If you want real world mustang results, there are tons of people out there running boosted mustangs at outrageous cylinder pressures on untested pump e85. I’m one of them. Greg Banish chuckled at all the people testing their e85 and bragging about e85R and E100, said something like “anything past about e50 has no real gain and just eats up fuel system capacity”.

My experience matches that of Greg’s and the paper I posted.

Just one example: years ago I was tuning a gen2 on pump 93 and found the knock limits. Then I tuned him on e85. When he switched back to 93 I found it wasn’t knocking so I added some timing. No knock, added more, etc. before I knew it he was running MBT on pump 93. I was a little confused at the time but we went with it. About 3 tanks later the knock showed up again. I quickly realized that the little bit of pump e85 residual from previous tanks effectively stopped all knock even several tanks down the road. When I later saw the paper and Banish’s interview, it all matched up and pointed the same direction. A little ethanol is great but the returns diminish rapidly. On an NA GT350 I bet about e20 would allow it to hit MBT.

And again, tons of supercharged 12/1 compression coyotes running around at 15+ psi boost and junk untested pump e50-e85 at MBT never get knock, so an NA engine isn’t really going to be very picky about the quality of the e85.

 

[engineermike]

@honeybadger one more interesting thing that is hidden in the octane rating of ethanol…

RON and MON are tested at refineries using variable compression ratio carbureted “knock engines”. The test specifications were established a very long time ago and are shared by all refiners as industry standard. The method for both R and M is to atomize the fuel and then heat it to a controlled temperature before it enters the engine. This made a lot of sense with a carburetor since the charge would be heated in the manifold after atomization. But as such, in standard octane testing, ethanol loses ALL of its charge cooling benefit before it can affect the octane number because it is literally heated up first. The only part that shows up is the chemical difference, not the thermal, which may be the lion’s share of the benefit.

 

[K4fxd]

Many years ago I was in a test dyno run on a gen 1 F150 running pump e85. I don't know what it tested at but the shop wanted to find the knock point. They added almost 50 degrees of advance and it would not knock, at least none that the knock sensors could pick up. I know not the same engine but it was an ah ha moment for me. Shop tuner also.

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