Cracked Cylinders

[MachNroll]

Hi VMS - Thank you for your response and information here. Would you suggest I wait for an actual written statement from Ford here? or just take the car asap to another mechanic?

Also, would you recommend I not drive the car? or would it be ok to drive for <10 miles to a new mechanic?

This thread is another example of the great folks on this forum who take the time to share their expertise and wisdom to help others.

I won't weigh in from a technical standpoint as you have folks on here who appear to be very qualified in that regard. I am weighing in as a fellow enthusiast who has had my fair share of auto repair shops give questionable diagnosis and service, so I know how it feels to be in your spot.

That said, if I were in your situation, and decided to get a second opinion, I would consider going onto Facebook, searching for local Mustang car clubs (if there are any in the area), and ask for recommendations for dealer and/or private repair shops in the area that have provided quality service and repairs on Mustangs. Oftentimes the folks in these clubs are techs themselves and can point Mustang owners in the right direction to a good shop in the area or others are enthusiasts who have had excellent service and know where to go.

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[honeybadger]

Agree with @JAJ - that engine would run like absolute dog crap if the scoring was bad enough to cause a misfire. I'm talking smoke out the tail pipe, idle misfires, tons of blowby, etc. it doesn't look too out of the ordinary for a Voodoo based on my experience.

Honestly, the dealer is raising huge red flags and sounds like they're trying to get a pay day.

 

[sk47]

A stuck injector ought to cause other issues. For example, rough running at startup

You'd have other problems if you had a stuck injector

An oil analysis will tell you if you have fuel in the oil

that engine would run like absolute dog crap if the scoring was bad enough to cause a misfire. I'm talking smoke out the tail pipe, idle misfires, tons of blowby, etc. it doesn't look too out of the ordinary for a Voodoo based on my experience.

Hello; Here is a thing. There seems to be at least two issues going on. The misfire and the scoring. It is hard to picture exactly how they can be closely related.
In a way I am grasping at straws and fear my long winded posts add confusion. Until proven otherwise I tend to think the misfire will be due to something other than the cylinder scoring.

I backtrack to the start of this thread. Something spurred the mechanic to go to the trouble to stick a borescope into the cylinders to begin with. Such could be as simple as experience with the engine family. They have seen enough so that such a move is par for the engines. Just routine.

Allow me to be philosophical for a bit. There are a few ways I look at vehicles. A commuter vehicle or work truck I view differently than a special dream or classic car. An example from my past is a 1963 Oldsmobile Cutlass I restored. I went into the project with the notion of doing what it took to make it "right." I did that and had it running & looking good. I needed to sell it and wound up getting nothing for all the parts nor not a dime for the years of labor I put in. I sold it for what I had paid to buy it to begin with. Wish I had possessed a place/option to keep it. I knew from the get-go it was not a sound financial move.
For a work truck/commuter vehicle the math is different. I keep them as nice as is practical only. I will not have five salvage yard engines sitting around as I did with the Cutlass. Nor will I spend weeks & months making mistakes learning to paint one.
At some point a work truck/commuter vehicle has to have a practical value. For such vehicles the rough measure has been when the average cost of repairs equals a monthly payment.

I do not know how you feel about the car. I do not know how deep your pockets are. I do not know what you hoped to happen with the car. You did decent due diligence from what I read in a post but are at a decision point now. I hope you are lucky and the misfire is spark or fuel related and not too expensive. ( it will cost some regardless)
The scoring is something which might be lived with a long time but would be on my mind. In my younger days I would have to fix it eventually. Not sure I have the stamina now.

I wanted to make a point. Time to decide what to do with the car If the engine is bad and on top of that the warranty does not cover a replacement. With a new engine the car likely will not be worth more than you spent to buy the car to begin with.

Sorry about this post.

 

[drought_buster]

The cylinder bore scoring. In a previous life I would inspect 3 engines per day that were torn down after 1 hour of dyno testing for an engine plant that would produce 2,000 engines a day. I did this job for years. What I can tell you is those scratches in my experience happen during the break-in period of the engine. Debris gets in between the moly coat on the piston skirt and the cylinder bore and score the bore. I would have been responsible for cleanliness of the parts and had to attack it on the machining and assembly line. Bore scratches also came from burrs on the rings, but I don’t see 2 vertical scores the width of the gap in your situation. Appears to be debris. Without knowing I would wager it’s con rod debris when the rod was cracked and the operator had dirty gloves, contaminated piston/rod assembly station, or the piston cup was dirty.

Would this cause misfire, not by how light those scratches are. Oil consumption, sure to a small degree. You have to leak 10,000cc/min to piss off the calibration with a misfire due to scored bores. A leak down test will tell you that instantly. I’m suggesting it’s something else, fouled plug, wrong octane, clogged injector, unmetered air into the induction system. Those scratches have been there the life of the engine and they don’t get any worse. Once the debris is ejected, you see the scar and the rings conform to the defect.

 

[sk47]

A leak down test will tell you that instantly.

Hello; as a self-appointed explainer with too much time, let me talk about this. I have not done this test but have seen it done. The idea as i understand it is to check for leaks in an engine cylinder. the crank is rotated to the point all valves are closed. A device is threaded into a spark plug hole. Compressed air is fed into the device. The one I saw had two gauges I think. One showing psi in the air hose. The other showing pressure in the closed cylinder. Some air loss is expected but the two gauges tell the tale.

Another thing being you can listen for where the air is escaping. A hiss in the oil pan might mean bad rings. A hiss in the intake might mean a bad valve or valve seat. Air getting out past a valve stem (on a pushrod engine) might mean a bad valve seal. Bubbles in the coolant could be a bad head gasket, a cracked block or cracked head.

 

[sk47]

The cylinder bore scoring. In a previous life I would inspect 3 engines per day that were torn down after 1 hour of dyno testing for an engine plant that would produce 2,000 engines a day. I did this job for years. What I can tell you is those scratches in my experience happen during the break-in period of the engine. Debris gets in between the moly coat on the piston skirt and the cylinder bore and score the bore. I would have been responsible for cleanliness of the parts and had to attack it on the machining and assembly line. Bore scratches also came from burrs on the rings, but I don’t see 2 vertical scores the width of the gap in your situation. Appears to be debris. Without knowing I would wager it’s con rod debris when the rod was cracked and the operator had dirty gloves, contaminated piston/rod assembly station, or the piston cup was dirty.

Would this cause misfire, not by how light those scratches are. Oil consumption, sure to a small degree. You have to leak 10,000cc/min to piss off the calibration with a misfire due to scored bores. A leak down test will tell you that instantly. I’m suggesting it’s something else, fouled plug, wrong octane, clogged injector, unmetered air into the induction system. Those scratches have been there the life of the engine and they don’t get any worse. Once the debris is ejected, you see the scar and the rings conform to the defect.

Hello; what is your take on break in oil? I am old and old school. I have not had many new cars, but I always have changed the oil in a new car around 500 miles.

 

[drought_buster]

Break in oil? Not necessary with modern engines. The factory has an additive package in their oil that is different than what you get in the bottle. We assembled engines using 50w oil(assembly lube). At 500 miles the engine has already clearanced itself, the 44 degree angle on the valves are starting to lap themselves into the 45degree valve seat gage height, and the piston rings are starting to knock the peaks off the bores from the honing process. If anything, changing the filter at 500 miles will give you an indicator how your engine is wearing in. We would rinse down the paper filter element with isopropyl alcohol and classify the debris by size, quantity, and if it was ferrous on the 3 engines torn down daily. This was completed as a health check or a snap shot of quality on a given day.

 

[gilbenja]

 

[gilbenja]

Most recent updates. Any thoughts?

 

[Gilberjj]

I haven't kept up with all that's happened... but contaminated fuel has to be what you focus on here. Misfires can happen because of bad fuel.

 

[sk47]

Hello; The more common ways fuel can be contaminated include sitting too long. Ethanol in gasoline will separate after a while. We have no good information on how much fuel you ran thru it after you bought the car. Two easy ways to avoid this is to run the old fuel out or add a fuel stabilizer. There are now fuel stabilizers formulated to help with ethanol in gas.

A third way is to run pure gasoline.

Water can get into the gas. A common way in the past was having too little fuel in the tank. Water would condense inside the tank during cool nights. A solution is to keep the tank over 3/4 most of the time. A WAG is the seller may have added something to the fuel. Maybe a stabilizer and it was just left too long.

Contaminated fuel can cause misfire and other poor running. a suggestion if the engine dos does not have to be replaced. Go for a long drive say once a month. Say a couple hundred miles if practical. Maybe a 50-to-100-mile trip every week. The idea is to drive it regularly.

For sure have the old fuel drained and get fresh in the tank.

Your comment that the technician calls it a baseline engine concern is not helpful.

 

[honeybadger]

Good lord. this dealership is less than useful. "here's a vague statement with a bunch of pictures meant to intimidate you into believing me." Barely 1 step above trust me bro.

I'd pull my car out of there. Its clear they dont want your business unless it involves an engine replacement

 

[gilbenja]

An update on the situation.

*Attached the dealership diagnostic.

As many suggested, I pulled the car out from Galpin Ford.

I took the car to Upland ford and they suggested I do a crank relearn - this unfortunately did not solve the issue. Drove the car mildly hard and all was fine. However, once under heavy load, 2nd gear WOT uphill, the check engine light flashed again.

I ordered a coil which is still on its way and ordered 8 spark plugs.

Upland ford thinks the next steps should be checking the wiring / inspecting coils.

I know others have commented that the scoring on my cylinders look mild / nothing of concern - not trying to be argumentative here. But just feeling conflicted from multiple other mechanics saying the scoring looks fairly deep and they thought it was cause for concern. Not a concern in the sense of that is what is causing the misfire / saying the engine will blow up tomorrow. But saying scoring will likely worsen and lead to engine failure.

 

[Mach 307]

An update on the situation.

*Attached the dealership diagnostic.

As many suggested, I pulled the car out from Galpin Ford.

I took the car to Upland ford and they suggested I do a crank relearn - this unfortunately did not solve the issue. Drove the car mildly hard and all was fine. However, once under heavy load, 2nd gear WOT uphill, the check engine light flashed again.

I ordered a coil which is still on its way and ordered 8 spark plugs.

Upland ford thinks the next steps should be checking the wiring / inspecting coils.

I know others have commented that the scoring on my cylinders look mild / nothing of concern - not trying to be argumentative here. But just feeling conflicted from multiple other mechanics saying the scoring looks fairly deep and they thought it was cause for concern. Not a concern in the sense of that is what is causing the misfire / saying the engine will blow up tomorrow. But saying scoring will likely worsen and lead to engine failure.

Sounds like you’re doing the right things. I don’t think the code is from the scoring, but I’d keep an eye on the scoring issue, can’t be great. I saw your other thread too, and on Reddit. I mean, I’d take it with a grain of salt it’s mostly 350 owners telling you it’s no worries. They will defend that motor to death, and turn a blind eye to the obvious, even with its well documented reliability issues.

 

[robvas]

Still no coil replacement.....

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