BBQ tick - another attempt to understand

[18P51GT]

Well, whatever this tick is, good, bad or of no consequence, it's present in 2019s. I've observed both the steady tick as well as the irregular tick on mine. Just over 1,000 miles. I guess we'll see how things progress over time....

Really hope it pans out. Mine started out faint only on cold starts and sounded like exhaust expansion because it was inconsistent. By the time I hit 13000, it was louder and could still be heard going down the road at around 2500 rpm or so. The turning point for me was that it never went away. That’s when I took it in and the found metal in the filter and pan not to mention scoring on one of the cylinder walls.
Cross your fingers. Meanwhile, don’t be afraid to keep driving it.

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[NastyPumpkin]

Update on my BBQ tick. Yesterday I dumped the oil with the tsp of carbon in it, (about 300 miles on it). Put in Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30, so far about 100 miles in on the Pennzoil, NO TICK. This whole thing was driving me crazy, I hope this is my ending on it.. My long tube headers will be going on this Friday, with whipple coming soon...

 

[Condor1970]

Update on my BBQ tick. Yesterday I dumped the oil with the tsp of carbon in it, (about 300 miles on it). Put in Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30, so far about 100 miles in on the Pennzoil, NO TICK. This whole thing was driving me crazy, I hope this is my ending on it.. My long tube headers will be going on this Friday, with whipple coming soon...

Add one more to the list of PUP users. The more guys that have success with PUP 5w30, the more I'm reaffirming my belief this is a piston slap issue. Something that basically happens in almost every engine, but far less noticeable in most, compared to this new 5.0L.

I've been developing a theory on why the 2018 year seems to be a little worse than the 15-17's. I think because the diameter of the new plasma arc lined cylinders is notably larger than the last 3 years, makes it slightly more likely to rock the pistons a little more causing some skirt slap. I'm sure the Ford Engineers adjusted the location of the pin boss to help compensate for a slight change in mass and tendency to rock based on the size of the new combustion area, etc. However, it may not be a geometry that allows for perfect compensation to completely prevent the issue. Thus, more piston slap may occur. This may not necessarily be a horrible thing when it comes to longevity or reliability, but the need for better lubrication with higher shear film strength and surface additives to provide less audible noise and potential skirt wear over time may be needed. Therefore, the use of just about anything in the 5w20 category of oils is really pushing to low end of acceptable viscosity. Adding a Boron additive like Archoil, Tribotex, or Ceratec is about the only way I've heard guys achieving a quiet engine using 5w20 oil. The only 5w20 I have seen on here that has had success is the one guy who switched to PUP 5w20. Even Amsoil 5w20 hasn't had much success. I think it's really because from the UOA done on PUP shows it to have a higher Boron content and slightly less ZDDP than most others. The Boron is a much better lubricant, whereas ZDDP provides better physical cushioning between components like those found in flat tappet engines.

My ticking has subsided quite a bit since I got my car back from having a new clutch installed yesterday (still on Mobil 1 EP 5w20), but I am definitely switching to PUP 5w30 next weekend when UPS drops it off.

 

[thelostotter]

Here is my experience with the BBQ tick:

I bought my 2017 GT with the performance pack new and I did NOT notice the BBQ tick. I would have taken it to get looked at if it was making that noise early on.

I drove on the factory fill to approximately 5k miles and changed it myself. I refilled the car with the MC 5w-20 semi-synthetic oil and MC filter. Did not pre-fill the filter since I've never done this on any vehicle ever. I do not recall noticing the tick immediately after, I wasn't really paying attention to it and it's hot here in AZ so I drove with the windows up most of the time. I did eventually notice it occurring randomly between 1,200-2,000 RPM. I put approximately 3k miles on it with the 2nd fill of MC 5w-20.

I did some research here and found it was a common complaint. Only found one documented case of connecting rod bearing damage where they only replaced the bearing caps and the BBQ tick ceased. Mostly what I found were theories and opinions. I could always make the ticking go away by driving the car hard and getting it nice and hot. Personally, I think if there was mechanical damage the noise would always be present at all engine speeds and would vary linearly with RPM. The fact I could get it to go away by driving hard put my mind at ease. I do believe there are cars with cylinder and connecting rod damage, I just don't think mine does because I would expect a hot engine to make more noise under load than it does at idle if there was an issue.

I got tired of the tick so I changed the oil with M1 extended performance 5w-20 and used the Ford Racing M-6731-FL820 filter. This seemed to make the tick more noticeable. I feel like it was louder, and occurred more often between 1,200-2,000 RPM. I put about 3k miles on it with M1.

By this point I was getting really annoyed with the tick. It was embarrassing to drive slow through parking lots and through my neighborhood with my essentially new car click clacking away. Took a lot of the enjoyment out of driving my first new vehicle, and the first performance oriented car I've ever owned. My beater 2000 S10 with 260k miles sounds perfect. I decided to refill the car with MC 5w-20 and another Ford Racing filter. The ticked seemed to reduce to the level it had prior to the M1 oil change. It was still aggravating me so I decided to try some Liqui Moly MOS2 additive. I used about half the recommended "dose" because I didn't want to overfill the car. This stuff made no difference in regards to the tick. I put about 300 miles on the car with this oil.

Last week I was detailing my car and getting it ready for my first track day. Finally using the car for what I really bought it for. I decided to drain the 300 mile MC oil which still looked fresh, just a little tint from the MOS2. I refilled with Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w-30. I did not change the filter since it was so new. I have heard great things about this oil and I wanted a bit heaver weight for the track. I had read on here that it eliminated the tick for some, maybe all, people who tried it.

At first I was a little disheartened because my car still ticked while driving slow while it was warming up, although it was reduced in volume and frequency. I was at the track yesterday and I could hear my car ticking each time I drove slowly through the pits on my way to get on the track. As expected based on all my previous experience, the tick was nonexistent when I came off the track. This morning I decided to retrace all the steps that would induce the ticking. I was driving with a cold engine out of my neighborhood and I could hear the ticking as I drove slowly. I hopped on the freeway and drove gently for a few minutes and went to the mall so I could drive around slowly through the parking lot. I drove next to cars and along curbs and buildings and for the most part the tick was absent. I could still get it to tick, albeit very very minor, when slipping the clutch from a stand still at low rpm, like you would when navigating a crowded parking lot. In fact, this might be a separate tick related to the clutch but it sounded similar to the BBQ tick. Driving normally the BBQ tick is completely gone, and I did not hear it while driving slowly through my neighborhood on the way home. Keep in mind, at no point on this drive did I drive aggressively.

Overall I'm happy. I've convinced myself there is nothing mechanically wrong with my car because I don't believe a change of oil brand or weight would mask any real mechanical issue. I can live with the tick while cold, I'm just glad it actually goes away when the car is at temperature which it didn't used to do unless I drove the car hard. The PUP 5w-30 is great oil, and its not expensive so I will be using this for every oil change from now on.

Sorry for the long winded post, maybe someone will find it useful. I will update this if I notice anything contrary to what I experienced above. Still stumped by what the noise actually is. Weird.

 

[ponyv6]

here is the update for my case:

VCT solenoids changed didn't help.
In the process of cam phasers replacement I lemmoned the car (it had been in the shop for 2.5 months). At this point I told them even it is not fixed I wanted to have my car back till the replacement vehicle delivered. FORD RAV was okay with it and I got the car back after the phaser replacement.

The tick is almost gone. I just hear single ticks time to time. I was thinking if it can be related to very cold weather temp. But I the weather got warmer this weekend, still no tick.

For reference it was ticking like this all the time. I could hear it easily when driving 20-30mph .

Some other details I see in my repair order:
1. I see that timing chain tensioner and timing belt tensioner also changed (I don't know if this was a part of repair or a must, like gaskets)
2. When the spark plugs cancelled 1 by 1 ticking was still there
3. oil filter inspected for metal, no metal was found.
4. It was under warranty but total cost was $2500 (I think I see this because they gave me internal repair order detail by mistake)

 

[GT Pony]

Some other details I see in my repair order:
1. I see that timing chain tensioner and timing belt tensioner also changed (I don't know if this was a part of repair or a must, like gaskets).

No "timing belt" on the Coyote, so it was probably the tensioner for the serpentine belt.

If the tick is almost gone, why not try some Pennzoil Ultimate Platinum 5W-30 to see if that cures the tick like some guys have claimed.

 

[ponyv6]

No "timing belt" on the Coyote, so it was probably the tensioner for the serpentine belt.

If the tick is almost gone, why not try some Pennzoil Ultimate Platinum 5W-30 to see if that cures the tick like some guys have claimed.

if the buyback process takes too much time and if I need to change the oil, definitely I might try it.

You might be right. I dont have any knowledge about that. I am directly quoting from the repair order "BZ3Z*6K254*B TENSIONER- TIMING BELT"

 

[careature]

Update on my BBQ tick. Yesterday I dumped the oil with the tsp of carbon in it, (about 300 miles on it). Put in Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30, so far about 100 miles in on the Pennzoil, NO TICK. This whole thing was driving me crazy, I hope this is my ending on it.. My long tube headers will be going on this Friday, with whipple coming soon...

Keep us updated. This carbon thing is very unusual.

P.S. Actually, TriboTex is claiming to contain carbon particles:

After 500 miles of driving (don't worry it does not have to be all at once) a diamond-like carbon (DLC) coating is formed that reverses wear and repairs bearings.

However, a couple forum members that tried it did not notice any immediate "right away" improvements as far as I can remember.

 

[accel]

One interesting observation on my '17 tick. I can make car tick while it stays in neutral gear and I keep rmps at certain level under 2000. When engine warms up completely the tick goes away.

So if I press clutch pedal all the way down to the floor I not only hear the tick but feel it through my left foot. What's interesting is that the "feel" is much more regular. It is pretty much permanent that is being accompanied with random tick. When it ticks it also feels, but when it feels it does not always tick. By the feel I can tell that there's some serious mechanical interference is going on. Tick is only reporting some of it. And it is not just the sound.

When the engine is completely warmed up I can neither hear the tick, nor feel it anymore.

P.S. Pushing the clutch only serves the purpose of pressing the foot against something connected to the engine.

 

[Condor1970]

One interesting observation on my '17 tick. I can make car tick while it stays in neutral gear and I keep rmps at certain level under 2000. When engine warms up completely the tick goes away.

So if I press clutch pedal all the way down to the floor I not only hear the tick but feel it through my left foot. What's interesting is that the "feel" is much more regular. It is pretty much permanent that is being accompanied with random tick. When it ticks it also feels, but when it feels it does not always tick. By the feel I can tell that there's some serious mechanical interference is going on. Tick is only reporting some of it. And it is not just the sound.

When the engine is completely warmed up I can neither hear the tick, nor feel it anymore.

P.S. Pushing the clutch only serves the purpose of pressing the foot against something connected to the engine.

Having the clutch really does put you in touch with the engine. Literally. If you had it up on a lift, and put your hands on the oi loan or anything connected to the engine, you may very well feel it as well. When you have a the beginnings of a knock or piston slap, that is not uncommon.

 

[accel]

Having the clutch really does put you in touch with the engine. Literally. If you had it up on a lift, and put your hands on the oi loan or anything connected to the engine, you may very well feel it as well. When you have a the beginnings of a knock or piston slap, that is not uncommon.

So I guess next time the car is in the dealership I'll ask technician to either use clutch or put a hand at the engine. It is not just the sound.

 

[MasterGGM]

Just read all 18 pages and my emotions went up and down like a rollercoaster . I'm on my 2nd 18 5.0, first one had entire clutch assembly replaced, driveshaft replaced(still didn't fix vibration) and components rear dif replaced, but no tick. All before the 1k break in was done. New 18 feels great, no performance issues but developed the tick around 800some miles. At 1500mi, switched to royal purple 5w30. Made no difference, I'm just under 2900mi currently. More common on cold start idles plus ac, but still hear it at times after a good drive and pinging off fast food drive through walls n such. Dealership almost made me lose my s#*t saying it's normal. I plan on going with turbos and this mess is holding me hostage. Don't know what to think anymore. Not much patience left in me after a 3 1/2 month lemon law replacement process

Would love some detail on your first replacement process. I will be starting my replacement process from a 2018 Mustang GT (MSRP $48,180) to a 2019 Mustang GT (MSRP $52,020) and would like to know how you went through it all and what kind of replacement you got and how it effected your loan.

 

[accel]

So I guess next time the car is in the dealership I'll ask technician to either use clutch or put a hand at the engine. It is not just the sound.

This also might mean that the problem is more widespread than we think. There are engines that have this mechanical interference felt through clutch that does not result in pronounced ticking (yet, or never). And owners of those do not believe they have ticking problem.

 

[magneticgrey_manstick]

Would love some detail on your first replacement process. I will be starting my replacement process from a 2018 Mustang GT (MSRP $48,180) to a 2019 Mustang GT (MSRP $52,020) and would like to know how you went through it all and what kind of replacement you got and how it effected your loan.

The process was horrible, took just over 3 months. Once I knew my car would be in service for at least a month I started the replacement process and filed a claim to lemon it. With so many issues with my old 18, clutch/driveshaft/dif/idle, I didn't want repairs I wanted a new car. Repairs would have been a much quicker process but to have all the issues and still not be out of the break in period was a no go for me. Once you file it can take 30 days for a response.....Once approved you now have to deal with Ford RAV (re acquired vehicle). You'll have fun leaving voicemails and being on hold trying to get a hold of your case handler. It's seriously ridiculous. If you want to keep your current loan as is, no changes whatsoever, you'll have to do a replacement not a buyback. The replacement vehicle has to be an exact replacement, same msrp, same year, same trim, features and all that. Going from an 18 to a 19, manual to auto ex you'll have to refinance. I did the replacement route because I got a hell of a deal and didn't want to refinance. Replacement takes longer because all the warranties have to be transferred over to the new vehicle. Not all dealerships will do replacements because of all the work it takes and because they gain nothing from it. You'll have to call around and speak with the dealerships buyback rep to see if they do replacements. You'll have a much easier time doing a buyback vs a replacement but Ford RAV is a headache either way. If you're car is drivable during the process you should be able to use it until your new vehicle is ready. I had a loaner for little over a month during repairs and then had the lemon back to drive once it was out of service

 

[MasterGGM]

The process was horrible, took just over 3 months. Once I knew my car would be in service for at least a month I started the replacement process and filed a claim to lemon it. With so many issues with my old 18, clutch/driveshaft/dif/idle, I didn't want repairs I wanted a new car. Repairs would have been a much quicker process but to have all the issues and still not be out of the break in period was a no go for me. Once you file it can take 30 days for a response.....Once approved you now have to deal with Ford RAV (re acquired vehicle). You'll have fun leaving voicemails and being on hold trying to get a hold of your case handler. It's seriously ridiculous. If you want to keep your current loan as is, no changes whatsoever, you'll have to do a replacement not a buyback. The replacement vehicle has to be an exact replacement, same msrp, same year, same trim, features and all that. Going from an 18 to a 19, manual to auto ex you'll have to refinance. I did the replacement route because I got a hell of a deal and didn't want to refinance. Replacement takes longer because all the warranties have to be transferred over to the new vehicle. Not all dealerships will do replacements because of all the work it takes and because they gain nothing from it. You'll have to call around and speak with the dealerships buyback rep to see if they do replacements. You'll have a much easier time doing a buyback vs a replacement but Ford RAV is a headache either way. If you're car is drivable during the process you should be able to use it until your new vehicle is ready. I had a loaner for little over a month during repairs and then had the lemon back to drive once it was out of service

I appreciate the detailed summary. Looking forward to all the fun.. my approval/denial date is 10/31.

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