BBQ Tick Solved?

[stangman638]

Is this tick a big problem with most 18-19 mustangs or is the internet just freaking out over a few bad apples.

Hard to tell if the tick is related to the metal shavings found in the oil or not. I really don't know, but I do know it dont sound normal and want it fixed.

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[markbehr]

Hard to tell if the tick is related to the metal shavings found in the oil or not. I really don't know, but I do know it dont sound normal and want it fixed.

Really sucks. I love Mustangs but now im questioning this purchase

 

[stangman638]

Really sucks. I love Mustangs but now im questioning this purchase

Don't just drive it .. you have a warranty, can't kick yaself when there is nothing wrong

 

[stangman638]

Just went to check on my GT and talk to the mechanic who was going to be working on my car. He was out on a test drive so I didnt get to talk to him but I found a 2018 GT there that was torn down.. Looks like some marks on cylinder walls for 1 cylinder with 1 piston removed.. sorry for how short the video is but IDK if I was even supposed to be in there :

What happen to the vids?

 

[markbehr]

Don't just drive it .. you have a warranty, can't kick yaself when there is nothing wrong

true

 

[Andy13186]

What happen to the vids?

I had sent one to my service advisor saying I think my car has the same issue then the service director called me and told me to take them down because it was a different customers car. They would not give me any information about the problem this car had or what they were doing to try to solve it.

Pic of what I saw though :

 

[Killswitch16GT]

I had sent one to my service advisor saying I think my car has the same issue then the service director called me and told me to take them down because it was a different customers car. They would not give me any information about the problem this car had or what they were doing to try to solve it.

Pic of what I saw though :

Are you kidding me? It sounds more n more like Ford knows this is a real issue and they're trying to keep people in the dark. Wtf do we have to do to get an official answer? Perhaps get the media involved? I traded in my 16 pp with zero issues for my 18 with a tick and now I'm staring at a turbo kit on my shelf because I don't wanna risk the engine taking a shit and ford pinning the blame on me. They need to tell ppl wtf is going on. Literally losing sleep over buying a 50k POS.

 

[steveo1960]

Are you kidding me? It sounds more n more like Ford knows this is a real issue and they're trying to keep people in the dark. Wtf do we have to do to get an official answer? Perhaps get the media involved? I traded in my 16 pp with zero issues for my 18 with a tick and now I'm staring at a turbo kit on my shelf because I don't wanna risk the engine taking a shit and ford pinning the blame on me. They need to tell ppl wtf is going on. Literally losing sleep over buying a 50k POS.

Get the media involved. It's the only way of getting to the bottom of this problem. Hit Ford in the wallet where it will impact sales of one of the most iconic automobiles ever.
First I would get Jalopnik involved.
Next, I would reach out to the guy who exposed the Focus head gasket problems and ask for advice on how to do a media blitz like he did. Maybe join forces with the Ford truck owners with he same motor and work together to spread the news on social media.

 

[Condor1970]

Those marks are not necessarily cylinder wall scoring. I know that makes you wonder, "Huh?"

The location of those marks are exactly where piston slap occurs, which is an arc 90deg perpendicular to the crankshaft. Since there is a mark there, you wonder how could it "not" be scoring of the cylinder wall? Well, the cylinder wall may be perfectly fine. What you may be looking at is aluminum from the piston skirt that is rubbing off, and embedding itself into the crosshatching. Keep in mind, that cylinder liner is plasma arc hardened metal. It is much harder than cast iron, which is why they get away with it being so thin. The real trick of plasma arc lining, is formulating a super hard spray on alloy that will have a molecular connection with aluminum, and it must also expand and contract at the same rate as aluminum to prevent cracking of the surface during temperature changes.

My point is, all these cylinders that we see scored, may not be scored at all. That shiny surface area may actually be aluminum from the piston skirt that wore off and embedded itself into the cylinder wall from excessive piston slap and/or poor lubrication (bad flow, or too low viscosity and shear strength). Some minor slap is not a big deal, especially if you are using proper lubrication. But if you're not, and the slap becomes too prevalent, then breaking down the oil film will occur, and that super hard cross hatching of the cylinder wall will act like sand paper on that piston skirt.

This may also be the tiny particles guys are finding in the oil catch cans. On the up stroke, the cross hatching may be wearing off tiny bits of piston skirt, then on the down stroke of the piston, that hard piston ring may be scratching some of the aluminum back off the wall of the cylinder, and the whirl wind of vacuum from the intake may be sucking those little particles away.

That may also be why some guys found super tiny particles in the catch can, but nothing in the oil filter.

 

[GT Pony]

This may also be the tiny particles guys are finding in the oil catch cans. On the up stroke, the cross hatching may be wearing off tiny bits of piston skirt, then on the down stroke of the piston, that hard piston ring may be scratching some of the aluminum back off the wall of the cylinder, and the whirl wind of vacuum from the intake may be sucking those little particles away.

I believe the piston skirts are coated with "Grafal", which is a anti-friction coating that is about 20 microns thick. I know they are on the 2015-2017 Gen2 Coyote, and most like also are on the 2018+ Coyote.

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine/tech-piston-material-selection-with-mahle-motorsports/

 

[Condor1970]

I believe the piston skirts are coated with "Grafal", which is a anti-friction coating that is about 20 microns thick. I know they are on the 2015-2017 Gen2 Coyote, and most like also are on the 2018+ Coyote.

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine/tech-piston-material-selection-with-mahle-motorsports/

Yes, they would have to be coated/plated, since skirt slap is VERY common. People think it happens in frequently. In fact, is happens pretty much all the time. It only depends on the severity of it. The coating is obvious, in an effort to protect the aluminum. However, my theory is that 5w20 Motorcraft and other 5w20 oils with well under 80,000psi shear strength, and very little boron or other anti-friction additives are really pushing the limit of what those coatings can handle. Especially since the diameter of the new Gen 3 pistons is larger, and compression ratio raised to 12:1. I just can't help but think that 5w20 oil with too low of a shear strength just isn't going to cut it with this new version of the Coyote.

I wish some of these guys with particles in the catch cans had an easy way to get them analyzed.

 

[GT Pony]

Yes, they would have to be coated/plated, since skirt slap is VERY common. People think it happens in frequently. In fact, is happens pretty much all the time. It only depends on the severity of it. The coating is obvious, in an effort to protect the aluminum. However, my theory is that 5w20 Motorcraft and other 5w20 oils with well under 80,000psi shear strength, and very little boron or other anti-friction additives are really pushing the limit of what those coatings can handle. Especially since the diameter of the new Gen 3 pistons is larger, and compression ratio raised to 12:1. I just can't help but think that 5w20 oil with too low of a shear strength just isn't going to cut it with this new version of the Coyote.

I wish some of these guys with particles in the catch cans had an easy way to get them analyzed.

Yeah, the particles in the catch-can is bizarre. My point about the piston coating is that if the skirts are wearing drastically from excessive piston clearance and piston slap, then the Grafal coating would be worn through and any dealership tearing down a very noisy engine would obviously see the coating worn through down to the aluminum skirt. I haven't heard any reports of that happening, but again it seems like trying to get information on what's causing all the engine noise is like trying to find solid proof of Bigfoot.

 

[Condor1970]

Yeah, the particles in the catch-can is bizarre. My point about the piston coating is that if the skirts are wearing drastically from excessive piston clearance and piston slap, then the Grafal coating would be worn through and any dealership tearing down a very noisy engine would obviously see the coating worn through down to the aluminum skirt. I haven't heard any reports of that happening, but again it seems like trying to get information on what's causing all the engine noise is like trying to find solid proof of Bigfoot.

Yes, that would be good to know. However, the only way to see the skirt is pull the piston and look. When they find these cylinder walls that look scored, that plasma liner is far harder than the skirts and their coatings. I can't help but think those shiny spots on cylinders is some skirt coating and aluminum rubbing off into the cross hatching of the cylinder wall. Then again, I could be totally wrong on that.

All the cylinder clearances may be perfectly fine. Maybe not. I just don't know. But, this slap may also be the result of the new engine design with inadequate lubrication using 5w20 oils. That may be why Ceratec users are having such good success. The Boron is embedding into the skirts and cylinders to replace the lost coatings, and providing the lubrication needed to quiet them down. However, if that's the case, the damage may already be done.

 

[pro 5.0]

Another thing worth noting is that Ford has used the spray in liner in the Gt350 & Gt500, however both engines used forged piston's. Maybe a cast / hypereutectic piston does not work well with that coating ?

 

[GT Pony]

All the cylinder clearances may be perfectly fine. Maybe not. I just don't know. But, this slap may also be the result of the new engine design with inadequate lubrication using 5w20 oils. That may be why Ceratec users are having such good success. The Boron is embedding into the skirts and cylinders to replace the lost coatings, and providing the lubrication needed to quiet them down. However, if that's the case, the damage may already be done.

Does anyone know if the 2018+ Coyote still has piston oil squirters like the 2015-2017? I can see where oil squirters could help piston skirt lubrication.

Cera Tec seems to quiet down engine ticks (caused by more than one issue it seems) in both Gen2 and Gen3 Coyotes.

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