Aluminator Failure

[shogun32]

I thought if the Aluminator could handle the abuse shown in this video, my measly dyno pulls and 1/4 passes would be nothing.

yeah but Jason's team isn't so stupid as to use 93 street gas. You can have 4 drums of E85(R) per pallet shipped to you by truck. Or find a local distributor or small-batch fuel blender.

Back a ways I got a quote for E85R $180/drum and $300 to ship qty=4 from WI to VA.

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[NotagainV2]

Local tuners usually work out of a full service shop. You have the ability to shake their hand and get to know them a bit. If there are any issues, like false knock, the shop can find and correct it. They also can add high octane race gas to find out if the knock is real. If you don't like the shift schedule they can change it while on a test drive with you.

If any issues pop up the shop is just down the road.

CONs

Some people thing Ford tuning is some big secrete and only a select few are privy to the which craft.

It could be a new tuner learning his craft, but this can be found out easily with a short conversation. New doesn't necessarily mean bad.

Let us know when the no name joe shop owner/tuner is setting records with the coyote platform....

You realize you can send "big name" tuners back the tune file and ask for "revisions" if you dont like driveability or "shift schedule"

I 100% believe you dont understand the full grasp of remote tuning.

This isnt 1980 anymore. The refinement from a tuner potentially thousands of miles away is incredible.

But then again I might be asking to much for the end user to take some responsobility!!

 

[NotagainV2]

No it's not.

I would have chalked it up to lifting the heads had it not had so called false knock, that was never found and corrected, before the send it tune was made.

Wtf do you think caused the heads to lift if thats what you want to blame it on?

 

[NotagainV2]

yeah but Jason's team isn't so stupid as to use 93 street gas. You can have 4 drums of E85(R) per pallet shipped to you by truck. Or find a local distributor or small-batch fuel blender.

Back a ways I got a quote for E85R $180/drum and $300 to ship qty=4 from WI to VA.

I just bought a house in MA 20 min from MIR and you can bet your paychecks I will travel or fill drums of E85. There are quite a few around the DMV and Maryland.

 

[NotagainV2]

Speaking of pump gas. Maybe I would have been better off going with one of the engines my local shop does.

"Street Engine Packages |" https://www.jensensenginetech.com/engines/street-engines.html

Check out package # 3....980 hp on pump 93.

Imagine dropping that in a fox body.

Rofl you cant even begin to compare a prehistoric engine like that to a boosted coyote.

Although youre right if you want a big hp pump gas engine Id suggest you find a pushrod engine with twice the cubes of a little ol coyote instead.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

I’m curious. What are the pros and cons of remote versus local tuners?

The only real pro to a dyno tune vs. Remote. Is if you don’t know what your looking at on your data log as you make a pull. There is a higher likelihood of doing damage if the tune is off! With a remote tune, you’re on your own. No babysitter. With a dyno tune. You have a shop guy there saying this don’t look good. Shut it down. You could hurt something in the engine if the tune is off. And you’re not as likely to catch it on your own. And secondly, to make a full RPM pull in a supercharged car While remote tuning. Your eyes better be on the road. And not the log. Cause you’re probably doing 150+mph! On a dyno. The car is strapped down. So you can concentrate on the log. And make sure the tune is on point. If it’s looks off you’re more likely to catch it before it does damage. Other than that. There is no real difference. All the shaking hands bullsh!t and knowing the shop goes right out the window as soon as the first problem arises! Been there.

 

[MD_]

I just bought a house in MA 20 min from MIR and you can bet your paychecks I will travel or fill drums of E85. There are quite a few around the DMV and Maryland.

Northern/Central MD (Westminster/Manchester) has no E85 carriers; closest is Frederick to me. Would love to have the option.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

I ran very similar setups in boats for years. On tilt, and a big constant load for hours on end. There is no replacement for displacement. As cool as the whippled coyote’s and 350’s are, they’d shxt the bed under the same conditions. The other thing that type of motor has over our setups in spades, is simplicity.

Rofl you cant even begin to compare a prehistoric engine like that to a boosted coyote.

Although youre right if you want a big hp pump gas engine Id suggest you find a pushrod engine with twice the cubes of a little ol coyote instead.

 

[Angrey]

Some thoughts....

1) I don't like the idea that the tuner is responsible unless they deliberately disregard a customer's instructions or make a colossal mistake. I'm responsible for my car. I'll never know as much as a tuner who does it for a living, but the idea that the tuner is some sorta physician and responsible is dumb. You're paying for their expertise and pushing the limits, their expertise isn't infallible.

2) This entire thread guys act like they've never heard of false knock being so irritating that tuners turn it off. Most of the times I've heard of this, it's a bunch of head scratching and searching, only to give up and finally decide to pull the sensors back. MOST of the time, it works and it's truly just something that either can't be found or figured out. I've seen guys swap knock sensors (thinking they're bad or faulty) and chase every creak and rattle they could find. Bottom line is, false knock isn't some unicorn condition. It's actually pretty common. And in some cases, the owner gets so frustrated and chomping at the bit, the only solution is honestly to turn them back and see how the car runs. But that's always been with a giant warning from the tuner like "your call."

3) Having said 2 above, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it on pump gas. That's me. The biggest problem with pushing the limits on pump gas is even with additives, there's just no way to verify the quality of fuel. It only takes one bad batch of fuel, on a hot day, and you're frownie face. And that bad batch of fuel can be a crooked station owner, a mistake by the fuel delivery guy, whatevs. That and every time you fill up with 93, you have the "last pump" issue, which chances are is someone filling on 87, cause unlike E they share the same hose/nozzle. At least with E you can get a crude sense of what you're putting in your tank. And octane booster isn't the answer to all prayers.

4) There has to be a way of rolling back the knock sensors without giving up the log/data. Some of the tuner gurus can chime in but there's usually tell tale signs of false knock vs real knock (i.e. when it comes on and how much, etc). If I was going to roll back the protection, I'd still want to watch it like a hawk just to be sure and if it ever started behaving more like real knock, pause and re-evaluate.

I think the lessons learned here are A) don't push it on pump and don't think booster is an infallible safety net, just accept given power limits on pump or at the very least, recognize you're rolling the dice if you run lots of timing B) If you want more power and you want to be about that life, get a bigger motor or accept that you'll have to get race fuel or E85 from the nearest locale or C85 by the drum. C) I wouldn't feel comfortable running 21.5 degrees and 850rwhp on pump gas even if there was no knock detected at all. It's just asking for a motor rebuild.

 

[Angrey]

That engine is 1.42 HP/CI
You were at 2.71 HP/CI

Actually he was more like 2.90+ hp/ci when you factor in drivetrain losses. That 900-980 is crank value, so the disparity is almost 2x given that he's roughly half the volume and in the same power range at the crank.

 

[shogun32]

This entire thread guys act like they've never heard of false knock being so irritating that tuners turn it off. Most of the times I've heard of this, it's a bunch of head scratching and searching, only to give up and finally decide to pull the sensors back. MOST of the time

It's simple, a tuner should NEVER under any circumstance turn down knock sensors or disable any other engine protection logic. They should be at full factory sensitivity. If there is false knock and the car owner can't find it, TOUGH SH*T. Protecting the engine is FIRST and ONLY rule. If the customer is chasing some fictitious HP/TQ numbers and wants to play games, they can tune it them damn selves. If you're a pro doing this for money you're 1) competent 2) don't use email tunes.

 

[WildHorse]

There the ones Ford Performance uses for their supercharged applications. 1 heat range cooler. Gap .028.

Bottom line, Rob should never have given the OP 21.5 degree tune based on adding octane boost to gasoline. Rob should also have realized, gas isn't consistent in octane ratings. Hence the term 'sweet/sour gas'. and to quote @NotagainV2 again, that's something that has been known since ever. Not just the '1980s'. Let Ford's adaptive octane logic either add/remove timing on a 15 degree base tune. Fine tune it from there.

OP; Don't use any antiseize whatsoever.

 

[NotagainV2]

The garbage roush blower that doesnt make anything close to 800hp on pump gas? Sure use those plugs on some wimpy Roush blower making barely over 650 wheel. Thats a far cry from the OPs setup.

 

[NotagainV2]

Hey when did you move to Mexico? LOL I thought you were up in Canada fighting them loud exhaust tickets .....

Run along and you just worry about your court date for being a badass with loud exhaust.

Keep on talking sh1t......

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/got-my-first-ever-muffler-ticket-haha.160591/

 

[NotagainV2]

Weird pumpgas + boostane and aborted the dyno pulls.....

Hmmmmmm

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