Aluminator Failure

stang17

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Hey guys, been awhile since I posted anything. Just wanted to let you know that I found the limits of an 11:1 aluminator.

My stock motor failed at 12,800 miles from a snapped crankshaft snout. It was supercharged from day 1 with a whipple gen 2 stage 2.

I ended up going with an 11:1 aluminator and adding a MFP crank support. I decided to go "all in" for a max effort pump gas build and purchased DW 95 lb injectors, BAP, calimer stage 3 MT-82, RXT 1200 HD clutch, and PBD tune while the new motor was getting installed.

Everything was put together August 2019 and proceeded to put a few hundred miles on the car before making the power pulls and remote dyno tuning.

With a 3.5 pulley and 96 octane ( 93 plus a bottle of boostane shot) PBD was able to tune me to the likes of 819 whp and 608 ft lbs.

Car drove great and was able to get me into the 9s and 138 mph at 4120 lb race weight.

6,000 miles later I put the car back on the same dyno and only make 764 whp and 556 ft lbs.


I proceeded to pull the plugs and do a compression and leak down test.

Compression / leak down was as follows

Cylinder 5 - 200 leak down test 82/100 psi
Cylinder 6 - 230 leak down test 88/100 psi
Cylinder 7 - 195 leak down test 80/100 psi
Cylinder 8 - 205 leak down test 70/100 psi
Cylinder 1 - 227 leak down test 99/100 psi
Cylinder 2 - 225 leak down test 92/100 psi
Cylinder 3 - 200 leak down test 86/100 psi
Cylinder 4 - 200 leak down test 72/100 psi

I proceed to pull the motor and have it shipped to Ford Performance in hopes of being covered under the 24 month, 24,000 mile warranty.

Attached is the copy of the inspection report.

I was told by PBD that I would be able to run as low as a 3.325 pulley with my 21.5 timing tune on 96 octane fuel.

I never went smaller than the 3.5 pulley because I didn't want the hassle of having to change to a different size belt.

Every dyno pull and 1/4 mile pass over the past year has been data logged and all logs consistently show 0 knock. No -/+ , just 0.

My original PBD tunes were showing knock even at 16 degrees and partial throttle. PBD was convinced the knock was false, made some type of revision (don't know what because tune is locked) and all knock went away.

I trust PBD and them giving me 21+ timing for use with 96 octane as I don't believe they would give me anything they didn't consider safe.

My question is why wouldn't any of my logs show knock when apparently there was a considerable amount of detonation going on ( see attached picture)?

Also, has anyone else had head gasket failures at 800 + hp?

I'm not throwing any shade at PBD, but just wanted to share my experience. PBD has been great to me over the past 2 years and I have no complaints with their customer service or response times.

Currently, the motor is at Holbrook Racing Engines who is working on getting me a quote for repair.

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K4fxd

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Too bad you can't see the tune. Locked for their protection indeed.

I ASSUME they either shut off the knock sensors or desensitized them.
 

EFI

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Every dyno pull and 1/4 mile pass over the past year has been data logged and all logs consistently show 0 knock. No -/+ , just 0.

My original PBD tunes were showing knock even at 16 degrees and partial throttle. PBD was convinced the knock was false, made some type of revision (don't know what because tune is locked) and all knock went away.
This sounds a little fishy. For one, there will always be a little give or take on the KR, whether positive or negative. I can't imagine that in all those runs you never once experienced real knock, or the computer trying to add some timing. This is reinforced by the fact that you said your engine was seeing knock, then they revised the tune and it all went away just like that.

I don't want to blame PBD, but sounds a little bit odd there. Holbrook engines is a well respected company, so if they deem improper combustion caused the damage I would have to believe their expertise.
 

K4fxd

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My original PBD tunes were showing knock even at 16 degrees and partial throttle. PBD was convinced the knock was false, made some type of revision (don't know what because tune is locked) and all knock went away.
This is why I think they shut off the knock sensors.
 
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stang17

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The assumption was it was false knock.

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WildHorse

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Rob and his infinite wisdom was wrong. REAL KNOCK. So as said, he either shut em off, or desensitized the fuq outta the knock sensors. I wouldn't let that clown tune a big wheel. Also, hoped you learned ur lesson with the whole 'max effort supercharged pump gas bullshit'. It never works out.
 
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stang17

stang17

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Rob and his infinite wisdom was wrong. REAL KNOCK. So as said, he either shut em off, or desensitized the fuq outta the knock sensors. I wouldn't let that clown tune a big wheel. Also, hoped you learned ur lesson with the whole 'max effort supercharged pump gas bullshit'. It never works out.
Stock whipple tune with guardian features turned off was commanding 22 degrees of timing with no knock on same octane, but at least with whipple I can see the knock sensors wanting to add more timing. I was told by PBD that they lock the timing so it will not add more, only take away up to -10. I was also told by PBD that for whipple cars they only modify the knock sensors by 10%.
 

K4fxd

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The assumption was it was false knock.
Should have put some 100 or 110 octane fuel in it. That would have solved the false knock assumption.
 

K4fxd

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From your damage the knock was real.
 

SolarFlare

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Sorry this happened OP. Best not to dig too much into, just get it fixed and move forward. Rob is a good tuner. If you can try to run E85 on the new motor, it’s infinitely better at protecting this kinda stuff from happening compared to pump and even mixed pump gas which can lend itself to a bad mix. Keep us informed
 

Cory S

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Sorry, but there's no way you can run 21.5° on 96 octane unless you were only making around 8-9psi of boost ,In which you were not. 21.5° requires a true 100-102 octane at 13-16psi.. That engine rattled for a long time IMO.

I run a mixture of Boostane in the 100-102 octane range with 17.5-18.75° at 14.5psi, and I occasionally get a little knock correction.
 

Cory S

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Rob and his infinite wisdom was wrong. REAL KNOCK. So as said, he either shut em off, or desensitized the fuq outta the knock sensors. I wouldn't let that clown tune a big wheel. Also, hoped you learned ur lesson with the whole 'max effort supercharged pump gas bullshit'. It never works out.
Nailed it 100%...
 

ypena02

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I too suspect they turned off the knock sensors. Honestly unacceptable if they indeed did.
 

80FoxCoupe

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I assume 11mm ARP head studs, but what head gaskets? You run pump and octane booster consistently?
 
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stang17

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I assume 11mm ARP head studs, but what head gaskets? You run pump and octane booster consistently?
Bone stock aluminator. 93 octane with a bottle of boostane shot every fill up. I never let the tank get below 1/4 before I top if off and add another bottle of boostane shot.

I don't have any e85 stations near me, thus why I asked for a tune that would be safe for 96 octane.

I'm still waiting to hear back from Holbrook for the quote to repair, but I did ask about doing ARP head studs, cometic head gaskets, and total seal rings for the rebuild. I'm hoping those and a hone job will get it back together and not require new pistons.
 

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