SCCA CAM-C Thread

[TeeLew]

OH SHIT! There's a trunk lid on Craig's List for $250 *and* it's in good shape with all the hardware. Ugly spoiler, here we come!

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[mavisky]

So as I come into the offseason I realize I may have run all of 2022 afoul of the ruleset, but wanted to get everyone's thoughts here before I go off selling parts.

The rule in question for CAM is on body allowances.

• Body panels may be modified or replaced in the original standard locations. Frame may be modified or replaced. Vehicle perimeter and wheelbase must be full-scale to the original model. Incidental wheelbase changes resulting from the allowed replacement of suspension components or modification of suspension design are allowed. This is not an allowance to shorten or lengthen the chassis/body (e.g., change the scale from the original). Lower rear body panels may incorporate the “look” of a rear diffuser but may not extend forward more than 6.0” past the exterior OE body panel(s).

I ran all of 2022 with a Verus Engineering Diffuser on the car as I had initially only been told about the no-wing/10"-spoiler rule and the 6" front splitter rules. Here's my question though.

1. The GT350/R from the factory had a "diffuser/undertray" from the factory, obviously this wouldn't be against the rules as it's a factory part.

2. The Verus diffuser is more of a flat bottom undertray with strakes than it is an actual diffuser with tunnels, but would likely still be viewed as a "diffuser" by some.

3. While the Verus diffuser extends well beyond 6" forward of the rear bumper, it doesn't extend more than 6" further than where the factory "diffuser" would have ended near the rear diff. Is this factory diffuser counted as the exterior body panel?

4. The diffuser is wider than the OE diffuser, but width isn't mentioned in the rule, nor is there any ruling on flat bottoms that I see anywhere.

 

[WItoTX]

So as I come into the offseason I realize I may have run all of 2022 afoul of the ruleset, but wanted to get everyone's thoughts here before I go off selling parts.

The rule in question for CAM is on body allowances.

• Body panels may be modified or replaced in the original standard locations. Frame may be modified or replaced. Vehicle perimeter and wheelbase must be full-scale to the original model. Incidental wheelbase changes resulting from the allowed replacement of suspension components or modification of suspension design are allowed. This is not an allowance to shorten or lengthen the chassis/body (e.g., change the scale from the original). Lower rear body panels may incorporate the “look” of a rear diffuser but may not extend forward more than 6.0” past the exterior OE body panel(s).

I ran all of 2022 with a Verus Engineering Diffuser on the car as I had initially only been told about the no-wing/10"-spoiler rule and the 6" front splitter rules. Here's my question though.

1. The GT350/R from the factory had a "diffuser/undertray" from the factory, obviously this wouldn't be against the rules as it's a factory part.

2. The Verus diffuser is more of a flat bottom undertray with strakes than it is an actual diffuser with tunnels, but would likely still be viewed as a "diffuser" by some.

3. While the Verus diffuser extends well beyond 6" forward of the rear bumper, it doesn't extend more than 6" further than where the factory "diffuser" would have ended near the rear diff. Is this factory diffuser counted as the exterior body panel?

4. The diffuser is wider than the OE diffuser, but width isn't mentioned in the rule, nor is there any ruling on flat bottoms that I see anywhere.

We had this debate between me, with a 350, and friend with a heavily modified 5.0. Our local "experts" opinion was on a GT350, you are good to run an aftermarket diffuser, as the car comes with one form factory, as long as it's close to the factory diffuser, and you can find it on the build sheet for your car. On the 5.0, it does not come with one from the factory, so her position was no you can't run anything other than exactly what the rules state. The 5.0 guy was complaining because his point was the S550 should be considered the platform, not GT vs 350 vs Mach 1.

I wouldn't worry about it unless someone is going to protest it. And I doubt that is happening at a regional event. The CAMS group have a similar debate with Corvettes missing most of the rear bumper. I don't know how those protests have panned out.

@NightmareMoon probably has better insight than me considering he has won nationals at how he view the rule. I would defer to him LOL

 

[Dana Pants]

That poor corvette made a rear bumper out of cardboard between run days to provide a “finished look. ”

I would in general not look for trouble and run a factory “diffuser.” Your other options for certainty are to write a letter for clarification or get someone to protest you at a national event and see what comes out of that protest.

 

[kz]

I think that historically anything that's OEM or OEM replica passes. Aftermarket that's substantially different IMO is no go. Someone at 2021 Nats was removing parts off his car (the subject of protests in CAM aside).

IMO it is not compliant but don't think anyone would have heartbreak over that. As long as Sam is raw timing all or most (everyone but Jacob) in FS Mach 1, things like diffusers or wings (I have two local cars with them) are not something I'm worried about... (and on last local with had a course that slowed you down to 15 mph, so yeah...)

 

[TeeLew]

Honestly, as long as the car makes weight, has 200tw tires and doesn't look like it's ready for Pike's Peak, I'm ok with it.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I’m just a competitor, I don’t judge the rules.

But I wouldn’t show up to a national event with anything thats attempting to be an actual diffuser. If you’re fast, somebody is likely to take that away from you with a protest and its no fun. Look how sore the CAMS guy was about his cut bumper protest and consider how many people would be run a diffuser if we could but are holding back because of the rules as written? Showing up with one at a big event would be in bad form.

< 6” forward of the stock plastic and you’re in the clear. I don’t think that versus diffuser is shorter than that, so its probably illegal.

If you read much on the role and function of well designed diffusers, I don’t think that versus one is doing a ton anyway without smooth flat bottom air to feed from and without going all the way back to the reear tires to really isolate those well from the rest of the airflow.

Just pop it off for national events, and run it at locals, track, street if your local players don’t mind.

 

[Gearz]

I don't think you'll have any protest trouble unless you start beating people - then you have a vulnerability that some may use. I agree with Jacob, it's not really a performance advantage especially at autox speeds and also a diffuser really needs a wing or huge spoiler to be effective. But, if you're being competitive that means adhering to the rules. If you're just having fun then don't worry about it and have fun. That's the spirit of the class anyway - run whatcha brung.

I think the CAMS guy really hadn't built the car for autox, it's more of a GridLife track attack car (in work) that just fit best in CAMS and they were a little surprised that it ended up dominating the class. Good driver and fast car that had a pretty obvious and protestable mod and someone threw paper at it. If he was outside of the trophies, it probably wouldn't have been an issue.

 

[mavisky]

I don't think you'll have any protest trouble unless you start beating people - then you have a vulnerability that some may use. I agree with Jacob, it's not really a performance advantage especially at autox speeds and also a diffuser really needs a wing or huge spoiler to be effective. But, if you're being competitive that means adhering to the rules. If you're just having fun then don't worry about it and have fun. That's the spirit of the class anyway - run whatcha brung.

I think the CAMS guy really hadn't built the car for autox, it's more of a GridLife track attack car (in work) that just fit best in CAMS and they were a little surprised that it ended up dominating the class. Good driver and fast car that had a pretty obvious and protestable mod and someone threw paper at it. If he was outside of the trophies, it probably wouldn't have been an issue.

I'll keep that in mind. This was my first season back after a 10 year hiatus but finished the last event 8th in PAX for the day here in Atlanta.

 

[kz]

I think the CAMS guy really hadn't built the car for autox, it's more of a GridLife track attack car (in work) that just fit best in CAMS and they were a little surprised that it ended up dominating the class.

Don't think they dominated it but one of them was in the trophies, one of them in the fb discussion wrote "honestly car isn't finished" (may not be exact quote) - it's Nats - people will protest things.

However - what happened after that on whole bunch of different groups (towards protester) was IMO completely unacceptable.

 

[TeeLew]

OH SHIT! There's a trunk lid on Craig's List for $250 *and* it's in good shape with all the hardware. Ugly spoiler, here we come!

Got it!

 

[mavisky]

Another fun rules based aero thought project for the group here.

SInce SCCA seems to be allowing aftermarket equivalent wings to be installed on lower models due to chassis equivalency (Camaros running aftermarket copies of the wing from the ZL1 1LE for example) is there any reason the S550 cars couldn't run the splitter fences from the GT500 CFTP or even the base cars with the handling package? I know the Ford units aren't a direct bolt-on, but for my car the ZL1 Addons would fall under the "stock equivalent" ruling I would imagine.

https://zl1addons.com/collections/mustang-2005-2018/products/mustang-gt500-extensions

Sure they're drag heavy, but I am not too concerned about drag at the moment, but the rules make no mention of limitations on splitter wickers/fences or even canards for that matter.

 

[kz]

Another fun rules based aero thought project for the group here.

SInce SCCA seems to be allowing aftermarket equivalent wings to be installed on lower models due to chassis equivalency (Camaros running aftermarket copies of the wing from the ZL1 1LE for example) is there any reason the S550 cars couldn't run the splitter fences from the GT500 CFTP or even the base cars with the handling package? I know the Ford units aren't a direct bolt-on, but for my car the ZL1 Addons would fall under the "stock equivalent" ruling I would imagine.

https://zl1addons.com/collections/mustang-2005-2018/products/mustang-gt500-extensions

Sure they're drag heavy, but I am not too concerned about drag at the moment, but the rules make no mention of limitations on splitter wickers/fences or even canards for that matter.

We had a little discussion in another thread about GT500 wing replicas. Those things from the link - don't think anyone would have a heartbreak over those. Question is - why ?

 

[mavisky]

We had a little discussion in another thread about GT500 wing replicas. Those things from the link - don't think anyone would have a heartbreak over those. Question is - why ?

Trapping more air on the splitter is a good thing no? Sure there's a drag trade off, and you may be able to argue that the inch and a half they stick out may collect a cone or two that you may have otherwise missed by millimeters, but I still see them as being a net positive.

 

[Dana Pants]

All I know is that ZL1 canards break off from cone hits. And even with aero, that car is miserable to autocross and has not enough front grip for the powertrain weight.

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