Manual VS Auto

[Juantrickpony]

Hill assist definitely feels like cheating. Caught me by surprise when I got my car. Didn’t realize it had that feature. First time it came on I thought my car was broke lol. It can be turned off in the settings. Good for beginners though I suppose.

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[13GetThere]

I like the hill assist. And I taught my wife how to start on a hill when I was teaching her how to drive a manual.
Remember, it only stays on for a few seconds, and then you start rolling backwards, so it's not total cheating.

 

[dn1984]

I don't like hill assist personally. I used to commute to SF on a regular basis in my 1970 Camaro SS years ago with a 4 speed Super T-10, and getting a perfect start on a steep hill was extremely satisfying. Stuff like that is part of the fun of driving a manual. That's also why I don't like wet noodle pedals and shifters with no feel

 

[Bikeman315]

1974, worked for a Toyota dealer. Had to pick up a Land Cruiser from our storage garage and drive it back to the showroom. Had to stop at a light with a slight uphill. Guy behind me pulls right up on my ass. I was new to driving manuals and almost shit my pants. Revved the crap out of it, released the clutch and gave the driver behind me a wave of the finger thank you!

 

[Balr14]

I know lots of guys who drive manual transmissions by choice, none of the rev match. I can do it, but rarely bother to do it. Is there some real purpose it serves?

 

[dn1984]

I know lots of guys who drive manual transmissions by choice, none of the rev match. I can do it, but rarely bother to do it. Is there some real purpose it serves?

puts less stress on your drivetrain if you do it right, and sounds cool

 

[Norm Peterson]

I like the hill assist. And I taught my wife how to start on a hill when I was teaching her how to drive a manual.
Remember, it only stays on for a few seconds, and then you start rolling backwards, so it's not total cheating.

A few seconds is way too long. Even two seconds (I think this is a common HSA timing) is too long. I get that HSA is something that could help newbies get started with driving a manual transmission car, but if you have to wait that long to get rolling the driver behind you will probably assume that you're too involved with your phone to pay attention to the driving,

HSA encourages drivers to use more throttle, more revs, and more clutch slip than the car really needs to get going. HSA has been known to cause the engine to stall if the driver used what was a normal amount of throttle for him and it turned out to be insufficient to overcome the HSA-applied brakes.

This "we'll do everything for you" is clearly going to far given that HSA has already started to creep over into automatic transmission cars. Sadder yet is that HSA in the automatic transmission Mustangs cannot be turned off. It's in the 2019 Mustang Owner Manual.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

I know lots of guys who drive manual transmissions by choice, none of the rev match. I can do it, but rarely bother to do it. Is there some real purpose it serves?

On downshifts, rev matching eases the load on the synchro rings.

Rev matching on a downshift really isn't any different from making lift-throttle upshifts as far as being kind to the synchros is concerned. In the upshift case, you need engine revs to drop, so you momentarily get out of the throttle as a natural part of the shift process. So it only makes sense to kick the revs up on a downshift.

On edit, basically put the engine revs about where the gear you're about to put the transmission in needs them to be.


Norm

 

[m3incorp]

Unfortunately, it has come to this. Those that never knew, don't care, if you know what I mean. I say learn on a heavily cammed small block from the 70's era with lots of stop signs at the top of hills.........just kidding of course.

A few seconds is way too long. Even two seconds (I think this is a common HSA timing) is too long. I get that HSA is something that could help newbies get started with driving a manual transmission car,

HSA encourages drivers to use more throttle, more revs, and more clutch slip than the car really needs to get going. HSA has been known to cause the engine to stall if the driver used what was a normal amount of throttle for him and it turned out to be insufficient to overcome the HSA-applied brakes.

This "we'll do everything for you" is clearly going to far given that HSA has already started to creep over into automatic transmission cars. Sadder yet is that HSA in the automatic transmission Mustangs cannot be turned off. It's in the 2019 Mustang Owner Manual.


Norm

 

[RalphK]

On downshifts, rev matching eases the load on the synchro rings.

Rev matching on a downshift really isn't any different from making lift-throttle upshifts as far as being kind to the synchros is concerned. In the upshift case, you need engine revs to drop, so you momentarily get out of the throttle as a natural part of the shift process. So it only makes sense to kick the revs up on a downshift.

On edit, basically put the engine revs about where the gear you're about to put the transmission in needs them to be.


Norm

If you don’t double clutch the disk will still be to slow with rev match but at least engine rpm will be similar when you dump the clutch reducing stress and wear although not saving synchro wear.

 

[Norm Peterson]

True. It's just that the topic didn't warrant that much detail at the time. Revs down for an upshift and revs up for a downshift seemed like a good enough guideline.


But here's something to think about . . . while you may well be making true double-clutch downshifts on the street (where you're not in any particular hurry to get the downshift done), that tends to morph toward what I'm going to call "1.5-clutch downshifts" out on a road course. When you are in a hurry, everything in that double-clutch procedure kind of blurs together and you don't fully re-engage the clutch in the middle of it all. Instead, you're relying on there being enough friction across the clutch when it's neither fully engaged nor fully released to bring the disc and input shaft revs up. And relying on yourself to have gotten the revs matched close enough (dunno, maybe within a hundred rpm at the instant you engage the lower gear). Clutch pedal down, partway up, down again, and finally all the way up. You may even find yourself not going all the way down with the clutch pedal either time and the downshift still happens smoothly. At that point, you're actually moving toward clutchless downshifting.

I've double-clutched nearly every downshift since the early 1970's. Maybe half a million of them.


Norm​

 

[RalphK]

Agreed, when racing I don’t double clutch, when driving old trucks on the ranch if you didn’t do it the tranny will let you know.

 

[RaceRed5.0]

Can't we all agree and respect both? Manuals are fun to drive because it actually gives you something else to do other than just turning the steering wheel. Autos technically will never be beaten simply because machine/computers will always be faster than a human reaction. Sorry you anti-terminators out there. Anyways both are great and I don't hate on either if you love your Mustang/Car than that should be all that matters.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Can't we all agree and respect both? Manuals are fun to drive because it actually gives you something else to do other than just turning the steering wheel. Autos technically will never be beaten simply because machine/computers will always be faster than a human reaction. Sorry you anti-terminators out there. Anyways both are great and I don't hate on either if you love your Mustang/Car than that should be all that matters.

As logical as that sounds. What would we do without the monthly 400 post battle of egos?

 

[RaceRed5.0]

As logical as that sounds. What would we do without the monthly 400 post battle of egos?

Maybe direct it towards Prius's or Tesla's?

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