GT350 Engine Refresh - Part 2

[honeybadger]

Well, I think it's beyond repair.... honeybadger, pls remove pics and/or post if you feel it has not it's place here

Ack! Damage to the cam, head, block and crank! Damn. That's nuts. Is the OPG still intact? That's definitely catastrophic oil starvation.

The block MIGHT be able to be saved depending on how was shaved off/damaged. You'll definitely need tog et the block checked by a machine shop. Do you have any history of what happened?

Glad Tim is getting you sorted out.

I think I remember from one of your vids that you had Pac springs?

When MPR did my heads I gave them MMR race springs/titanium retainers and they set them all and I purchased Ferrea valves through MPR.

Yeah, they're a PAC Racing spring. My assumption is they put the wrongs one in. FWIW, I believe the MMR race springs are also made by Pac Racing--just rebranded. New valves will also be the Ferrea super alloys.

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[JAJ]

Ack! Damage to the cam, head, block and crank! Damn. That's nuts. Is the OPG still intact? That's definitely catastrophic oil starvation...

It's a mess alright. The other possibility is that the oil filter collapsed into a wad and stopped oil flow to the engine. Either way, there was a lube-free moment in this engine's past.

 

[coolnose]

It's a mess alright. The other possibility is that the oil filter collapsed into a wad and stopped oil flow to the engine. Either way, there was a lube-free moment in this engine's past.

It's a mess alright. The other possibility is that the oil filter collapsed into a wad and stopped oil flow to the engine. Either way, there was a lube-free moment in this engine's past.

Well, the front left oil radiator had a leak after hitting something, we got maybe something like half a pint of oil out of the engine when draining it before tearing it down. I would be hard pressed to do that kind of damage (even on purpose) . Not an oil pump failure I think... That said, I am on the hunt for either a new block and associated components and start a fresh build (preferred) or a used engine.

I'll open a separate thread for that, as I "think" I do have have a Gen 2 engine in a 2018MY, which if I am not mistaken should not be the case from factory, weird things going on for 14K miles...and I would like to discuss the different option for the rebuilt, with reference to the suggestions here in this thread!

 

[honeybadger]

Well, the front left oil radiator had a leak after hitting something, we got maybe something like half a pint of oil out of the engine when draining it before tearing it down. I would be hard pressed to do that kind of damage (even on purpose) . Not an oil pump failure I think... That said, I am on the hunt for either a new block and associated components and start a fresh build (preferred) or a used engine.

I'll open a separate thread for that, as I "think" I do have have a Gen 2 engine in a 2018MY, which if I am not mistaken should not be the case from factory, weird things going on for 14K miles...and I would like to discuss the different option for the rebuilt, with reference to the suggestions here in this thread!

Did you buy it from an insurance company or something? based on the leak and the damage to the engine, it looks like it ran for a while without any oil in it.

What are your plans for the car?

 

[coolnose]

Auction car, yes, written off insurance car! It ran without oil and was revved hard to cause that kind of damage, on purpose or not I couldn't say, but I wouldn't bet on an accidental failure if I had to...

Planning to rebuilt a "stock-ish" street engine and enjoy the car ;) Nothing crazy needed for my purpose, just working out the little flaws, adapt the technical improvements that exist and go from there!

 

[JAJ]

Well, the front left oil radiator had a leak after hitting something, we got maybe something like half a pint of oil out of the engine when draining it before tearing it down. I would be hard pressed to do that kind of damage (even on purpose) . Not an oil pump failure I think... That said, I am on the hunt for either a new block and associated components and start a fresh build (preferred) or a used engine.

I'll open a separate thread for that, as I "think" I do have have a Gen 2 engine in a 2018MY, which if I am not mistaken should not be the case from factory, weird things going on for 14K miles...and I would like to discuss the different option for the rebuilt, with reference to the suggestions here in this thread!

Don't put too much credence in the Gen 2 Voodoo internet meme. The Voodoo is and was only a Gen 1 until the end of production. Along the way, pistons changed, heads changed, oil pan changed, block changed and so on, but there's no specific cutoff date where Ford stopped making it one way and started making it a different way. They did that twice with the Coyote, but not the Voodoo. Instead, individual components and subassemblies would change whenever it made sense in the annual build cycle. Putting it another way, if the engine started as Gen 1 and ended as Gen 2, then your 2018 probably has a Gen 1.75 or so in it.

And there's another aspect to this evolution that you need to think about although there isn't much you can do about it, and that's the idea that every change wasn't necessarily an "improvement". Some were made to save costs, others to reflect a change in supplier, and still more to deal with quality issues. There's no way to know which change was which.

So, if you're looking for OEM level performance, which is really good, just buy an OEM long block and get on with life.

 

[coolnose]

Don't put too much credence in the Gen 2 Voodoo internet meme. The Voodoo is and was only a Gen 1 until the end of production. Along the way, pistons changed, heads changed, oil pan changed, block changed and so on, but there's no specific cutoff date where Ford stopped making it one way and started making it a different way. They did that twice with the Coyote, but not the Voodoo. Instead, individual components and subassemblies would change whenever it made sense in the annual build cycle. Putting it another way, if the engine started as Gen 1 and ended as Gen 2, then your 2018 probably has a Gen 1.75 or so in it.

And there's another aspect to this evolution that you need to think about although there isn't much you can do about it, and that's the idea that every change wasn't necessarily an "improvement". Some were made to save costs, others to reflect a change in supplier, and still more to deal with quality issues. There's no way to know which change was which.

So, if you're looking for OEM level performance, which is really good, just buy an OEM long block and get on with life.

Thanks for that input, I get your point! That said the only difference I could see on Gen 1 vs Gen2 engines was the reinforcement on the waterjacket around the cylinders, but that might refer to the Coyote and not the Vodoo -I might have that one mixed up somewhat.

I am afraid a 25k longblock is not in the budget... I'll have to find a workaround, ideally starting with a fresh block.

 

[JAJ]

Thanks for that input, I get your point! That said the only difference I could see on Gen 1 vs Gen2 engines was the reinforcement on the waterjacket around the cylinders, but that might refer to the Coyote and not the Vodoo -I might have that one mixed up somewhat.

I am afraid a 25k longblock is not in the budget... I'll have to find a workaround, ideally starting with a fresh block.

There have been three generations of the 5.2 liter Coyote block (as FP calls it), the last one being the block in the 2020 GT500. All three versions have been used in the Voodoo, but Ford never indicated which one was in use when, nor did they ever say why they changed the block from the first version to the second. The third version is easy to understand - it's cheaper to use the GT500 block in both engines than it is to cast two different 5.2 liter blocks.

As for aftermarket parts, take care. A lot of those parts are intended for use in engines that drivers like @honeybadger run on race tracks a lot. They're undoubtedly excellent parts for that purpose, but there might be a tradeoff in longevity for performance. The factory parts may be dull as dishwater, but they passed Ford's long-term reliability testing.

 

[honeybadger]

There have been three generations of the 5.2 liter Coyote block (as FP calls it), the last one being the block in the 2020 GT500. All three versions have been used in the Voodoo, but Ford never indicated which one was in use when, nor did they ever say why they changed the block from the first version to the second. The third version is easy to understand - it's cheaper to use the GT500 block in both engines than it is to cast two different 5.2 liter blocks.

As for aftermarket parts, take care. A lot of those parts are intended for use in engines that drivers like @honeybadger run on race tracks a lot. They're undoubtedly excellent parts for that purpose, but there might be a tradeoff in longevity for performance. The factory parts may be dull as dishwater, but they passed Ford's long-term reliability testing.

FWIW, Tim told me the GT500 blocks are good enough from the factory he doesn't need to sleeve them unless the client wants it sleeved. So it looks like the newest blocks have that improvement as well.

But agreed, don't use race parts unless you're going to be on track a good bit. Otherwise, OEM spec is good.

 

[ShatterPoints]

There have been three generations of the 5.2 liter Coyote block (as FP calls it), the last one being the block in the 2020 GT500. All three versions have been used in the Voodoo, but Ford never indicated which one was in use when, nor did they ever say why they changed the block from the first version to the second. The third version is easy to understand - it's cheaper to use the GT500 block in both engines than it is to cast two different 5.2 liter blocks.

As for aftermarket parts, take care. A lot of those parts are intended for use in engines that drivers like @honeybadger run on race tracks a lot. They're undoubtedly excellent parts for that purpose, but there might be a tradeoff in longevity for performance. The factory parts may be dull as dishwater, but they passed Ford's long-term reliability testing.

This is a perfect example for why you should understand what exactly you are changing and why. That will allow you to make the best informed decision for your intended use. Which in my opinion falls short when potential purchase research stops at "Brand abc is good because internet says so".

 

[JAJ]

FWIW, Tim told me the GT500 blocks are good enough from the factory he doesn't need to sleeve them unless the client wants it sleeved. So it looks like the newest blocks have that improvement as well...

Is that because they're straighter and the bore alignment and centering is better, or because they're stronger? Or both?

 

[honeybadger]

Is that because they're straighter and the bore alignment and centering is better, or because they're stronger? Or both?

He specifically said the bore spacing is more accurate and he doesn't feel the need to correct it anymore. The strength of the block is bonus.

 

[bauern]

There have been three generations of the 5.2 liter Coyote block (as FP calls it), the last one being the block in the 2020 GT500. All three versions have been used in the Voodoo, but Ford never indicated which one was in use when, nor did they ever say why they changed the block from the first version to the second. The third version is easy to understand - it's cheaper to use the GT500 block in both engines than it is to cast two different 5.2 liter blocks.

It wouldn't be surprising to find a Gen2 in a 2018 GT350 (if it has 6 knock sensor bosses in the valley, it's a Gen2). The Gen2 5.2 was adopted when they introduced the 2018 5.0 Coyote. They share the same valley casting between the cylinder banks and the same longer 12mm head bolts. The Gen3 5.2 block is machined for larger Coyote style oil squirters and additional clearance machining for the big ends of the rods for the GT500 while the Voodoo retains the squirters in the main journals and no clearancing for the rods. I don't think there is any difference between the Gen2 and Gen3 5.2 other than this.

 

[olaosunt]

Thanks for that input, I get your point! That said the only difference I could see on Gen 1 vs Gen2 engines was the reinforcement on the waterjacket around the cylinders, but that might refer to the Coyote and not the Vodoo -I might have that one mixed up somewhat.

I am afraid a 25k longblock is not in the budget... I'll have to find a workaround, ideally starting with a fresh block.

you should be able to put together a long block for about $10k using all new OEM parts.
The “upgraded” Voodoo block retails for about $1850 . There is new one for sale on E-bay for $1750.

 

[coolnose]

He specifically said the bore spacing is more accurate and he doesn't feel the need to correct it anymore. The strength of the block is bonus.

you should be able to put together a long block for about $10k using all new OEM parts.
The “upgraded” Voodoo block retails for about $1850 . There is new one for sale on E-bay for $1750.

Thanks, I have seen the block you are talking about on ebay thanks. Making up my mind right now if I go for it or if I install a pulled motor. Thanks to all for your help, much appreciated!

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