Do you regret choosing your power adder?

[engineermike]

https://www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/explained-selecting-a-supercharger/

Book yourself on a course and then you tell them their wrong too

Aside from the obvious stark lack of data in that article, he's not actually wrong if you read it.

" I will point out though, that the twin-screw style of positive displacement superchargers do offer vastly improved efficiency when compared to the older Roots-style, but they still typically fall short of a properly selected centrifugal supercharger. "

There is no date on the article, but he does use the word "typically", which means not always. As I've pointed out before, the Eaton 2.65 rotor pack peaks over 70% and the modern Whipple compressors are closer to 80%. And if you look at the efficiency islands of the Eaton 2.65 you'll see that they align very well with the operating range of a 5-ish liter engine up past 12 psi. If you compare these to centrifugal compressors in the same flow range, you see very similar efficiencies so there is no real advantage or disadvantage here.

And on the intercooler, " a more common solution is to incorporate a water-to-air intercooler under the supercharger. These have the disadvantage of being less efficient than air-to-air and often the intercooler size needs to be compromised to allow them to fit. "

Once again, if we were talking about the Roush then he would be right. But again, we are talking about Whipple, VMP, Edelbrock, etc. These did not put the intercooler under the supercharger, but rather put it on top where it's not space-constrained, so his point is moot. And once again, the data I supplied showed the intercooler size is no issue.

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[engineermike]

Just because you have data doesnt mean the data is relevant, the data you gave and the other guy are a he said she said, as we have no idea the conditions of the dynos and mods to give the temps readings....i understand your setup doesnt have the issues, and your log of an ess does, but im not convinced either dont have foul play of sorts that are necessary to know, like maybe the outside temp difference, different dyno procedures like hood up vs down, mph for pulls, bumper style and intercooler style for each setup, etc

Interesting that you hold my data to a very high standard and even imply dishonestly, but you have posted no data aside from dashboard readings. I suggest you get an actual logging tool like VCMScanner, find the right temp, and do some logging yourself. I think you might be surprised at your actual charge temps. I know I was surprised by mine.

@80FoxCoupe do you have any logs you can post?

just like i gave you my anectodal evidence that my setup works, you did the same

By definition, data is not anecdotal evidence. Your examples such as "everybody knows the PD blower heat soaks" and "some youtuber blew up his PD blown engine" are completely anecdotal. I supplied actual data.

 

[vinny89gt]

Super helpful thread for @Milktasd.

 

[Wolfys11]

Interesting that you hold my data to a very high standard and even imply dishonestly, but you have posted no data aside from dashboard readings. I suggest you get an actual logging tool like VCMScanner, find the right temp, and do some logging yourself. I think you might be surprised at your actual charge temps. I know I was surprised by mine.

@80FoxCoupe do you have any logs you can post?



By definition, data is not anecdotal evidence. Your examples such as "everybody knows the PD blower heat soaks" and "some youtuber blew up his PD blown engine" are completely anecdotal. I supplied actual data.

Again the data you provide isnt necessarily bad but isnt proven to be good either, i never claimed my claim to be as good as yours, but i said i just dont believe it even given with your data points

if my maf is reading the temp, and the sensor in the manifold as thats the only second place a temp sensor could be, is also reading temp, and you are telling me my throttle body to manifold temps are changing by a supposed 30 degrees, i think somethings awfully weird

 

[Forestlump]

Interesting that you hold my data to a very high standard and even imply dishonestly, but you have posted no data aside from dashboard readings. I suggest you get an actual logging tool like VCMScanner, find the right temp, and do some logging yourself. I think you might be surprised at your actual charge temps. I know I was surprised by mine.

@80FoxCoupe do you have any logs you can post?



By definition, data is not anecdotal evidence. Your examples such as "everybody knows the PD blower heat soaks" and "some youtuber blew up his PD blown engine" are completely anecdotal. I supplied actual data.

I don't discount the data that you have collected, I believe it to be accurate.
it proves in your application that Whipple has taken a design with constraints and developed it to a point where the issue is no longer.

By turning it all upside down and having the flow go up through the cooler and turn 180 and down in to the engine, it has enabled them to have much needed larger cooler as proved by all the other systems like Roush and every system before that suffered from the inherent problem of space to put it. I just chose not to have to reinvent the wheel so to speak and I chose a system that didn't have the issue in the first place.

For me though the extra weight of putting a pd blower on top of the already high engine and associated water pump, Reservoir and pipes was enough to persuade me to not bother. It's a heavy and additional system that in my mind with a better design can be alleviated from the begining. If your goals are different to mine and you don't see the problems to that system like I do and many others also do it's a buyers market.

I based my decision on physics and known facts on the design principles not real world data that I had collected. Your system may work well for you but it's not good enough for my application and that's why I didn't buy it.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Again the data you provide isnt necessarily bad but isnt proven to be good either, i never claimed my claim to be as good as yours, but i said i just dont believe it even given with your data points

if my maf is reading the temp, and the sensor in the manifold as thats the only second place a temp sensor could be, is also reading temp, and you are telling me my throttle body to manifold temps are changing by a supposed 30 degrees, i think somethings awfully weird

Without any data to review, your claims cannot be considered. Claim denied!

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Interesting that you hold my data to a very high standard and even imply dishonestly, but you have posted no data aside from dashboard readings. I suggest you get an actual logging tool like VCMScanner, find the right temp, and do some logging yourself. I think you might be surprised at your actual charge temps. I know I was surprised by mine.

@80FoxCoupe do you have any logs you can post?



By definition, data is not anecdotal evidence. Your examples such as "everybody knows the PD blower heat soaks" and "some youtuber blew up his PD blown engine" are completely anecdotal. I supplied actual data.

We are at a point where some cannot be convinced when presented with facts. No need to post data as they will just poke holes in it, and run with what they have been told, think, or most importantly "feel".

 

[engineermike]

“Don’t let data get in the way of preconceived notions”

 

[LOL WUT]

From a pure intellectual level in this thread, @engineermike is likely light years ahead of most everyone in here regarding the review and understanding of data logs and mechanics that drive them.

I’d like to remind everyone else that it’s okay to be proud of what you spent your money on. But that doesn’t mean it’s the best thing out there.

 

[Wolfys11]

We are at a point where some cannot be convinced when presented with facts. No need to post data as they will just poke holes in it, and run with what they have been told, think, or most importantly "feel".

Data with no side markers of whats done to cars, conditions of weather, or anything other than heres a whipple log heres a ess log, is not data to be held to the highest regard

i never said its wrong, i just dont believe the point you guys make and the data you provide doesnt give me enough data to believe that dataset to be showing a full picture

i dont feel anything, its what ive researched before i bought ess vs whipple as i was debating this debate years ago, and now suddenly you tell me with a random dataset that what everyone says and shows is wrong, so im still on my side and not convinced

 

[Wolfys11]

From a pure intellectual level in this thread, @engineermike is likely light years ahead of most everyone in here regarding the review and understanding of data logs and mechanics that drive them.

I’d like to remind everyone else that it’s okay to be proud of what you spent your money on. But that doesn’t mean it’s the best thing out there.

Its not ego tripping, just debate on whats true and whats not, and every setup is worth having for some reason or another

i just dont agree with a pd setup claiming to have boost peaking to 9000 rpm, low end boost and torque, lesser heat issues, and the only problem being cost and weight as thats not what ive heard from all the pd across multiple setups to be true

 

[CrackedHorn]

Its not ego tripping, just debate on whats true and whats not, and every setup is worth having for some reason or another

i just dont agree with a pd setup claiming to have boost peaking to 9000 rpm, low end boost and torque, lesser heat issues, and the only problem being cost and weight as thats not what ive heard from all the pd across multiple setups to be true

It is my understanding that PD is capable of being set up to run in a more street friendly manner. ( boost parameters, belt setup, and better cooling)

It's just that a lot of guys don't start their journey that deep into it. So when their IAT climbs or they fight traction they start blaming PD. They then spend more money and time trying to basically get it set up the way it really should have been done to begin with. But the perception is that they're chasing their tail.

And Different PD setups definitely have different abilities, on top of that.

Weight and cost are the reasons I went centri. I have no illusions that my paxton is somehow "better" at ramming air into my motor than a whipple. And vice versa.
Both are very capable. Just different.

Only other con for PD, to me, is the extra stress of making boost lower in the rpm range.

Different flavors for different folks.

 

[gsxr1300]

I loved my stage 2 whipple on my 2015 Gt driven as a street car, instant power anytime you wanted it. If i was building a track car with extended run times I may have chosen something different. On the street the Whipple was a blast, exactly what i wanted.

 

[lo-fi]

I'm FI on another car I own (ESS Gen 3 on a BMW, works well). I won't do it again, I've found I'm personally more interested in slow car fast. Obviously we aren't driving a Miata, but I've got my GT to a place, and more is to come suspension wise, where its fun. More power won't make it more fun. I live in a rural area with lots of back roads. My M1 with sport cup 2s is crazy grippy on hot day. and that will receive zero modifications, ever. Power in a straight line gets old quick (I'm not speaking to the drag strip guys, they are chasing glory). I'll never understand big power for the city dwellers, but to each his own.

 

[wingnutt]

I loved my stage 2 whipple on my 2015 Gt driven as a street car, instant power anytime you wanted it. If i was building a track car with extended run times I may have chosen something different. On the street the Whipple was a blast, exactly what i wanted.

how dare you try and push the thread back on topic

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