Cracked Cylinders

[RNM]

any way you can reach out to previous owner ??? may be worth a try good luck with how it pans out

I can see the previous owner saying something along the lines like "Yeah, I had my fun with her and traded her in for a fresh experience, kinda like women."

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[Skye]

My interpretation of the lines on the cylinder walls is not one of cracks, but impact damage, a result from the pistons slapping or rattling against them. The marks have compromised the crosshatch pattern as a result. I can think of several causes, all of which involve someone not giving the engine a full warm-up before stressing it, abusing or not caring for it. Maybe the reason for the trade-in. Clear engine codes. Sell to dealer. All of which is speculation on my part.

[Edit, 22 Feb. Several have mentioned that, the lines on the cylinder walls can be quite common. While the lines could be a tell of something awry, they are not a sole indicator of a fault. Or necessarily a root cause of a larger problem. Compression tests have been recommended.

The OP indicated oil consumption has not been a issue.

The initial wrench light was related to mis-fires. Power tests (See OP's graphs) indicate a lower-than-expected power level in three cylinders, one in-particular. A second instance of the wrench light later occurred; the codes were captured by the Ford mechanic, but are currently unknown to the OP.

Initial tests and indicators were not good. OP is awaiting the formal, complete write-up from the dealer.]

I did some queries on Zurich Plans. It reads like even their most basic plan covers engine replacement.

Best Wishes on claim approval and a new engine. If you have time, please keep up updated.

https://www.zurichprotectionplandetails.com/vehicle-service-contract

https://edge.sitecorecloud.io/zuric...kh/auto/p0666198_vehicle_service_contract.pdf

Gasoline engine: all internally lubricated parts, including pistons, connecting rods and rod bearings, crankshaft and main bearings, camshaft, cam chains, timing chain, gears, tensioner and guide, variable valve timing parts, rocker arms, rocker arm pivots, valves, valve seats, valve springs, valve spring retainers, valve guides, valve push rods, hydraulic valve lifters, oil pump, oil pump drive, shaft and gears. Plus, these non-internally lubricated parts: water pump, fuel pump, valve covers, oil pan, timing belt, timing chain/belt cover, engine mounts, flywheel, flex plate, harmonic balancer, belt tensioner and idler pulley(s), intake and exhaust manifolds. Factory-installed supercharger/turbocharger. Seals and gaskets. Cylinder head, engine block and rotor housings. Fluids.

 

[WItoTX]

Read your warranty. I had one that said all of what Skye points out, BUT had one sentence tucked into it a paragraph or two later that stated it would not replace engine parts if the failure was due to a lack of oiling. So basically the warrant

The slight scoring on the cylinder wall isn't massively concerning. I don't see any cracks. The block in my garage from the stock motor had some on every cylinder and never threw a CEL, but the real failure was the rod and main bearings. Those scratches, if you cannot feel them with your finger nail, are somewhat normal from everything I've read. Definitely not ideal, and eventually will lead to a failure, but shouldn't be the cause of a CEL.

What was the code for the CEL?

 

[Cobra Jet]

Since the car appears to be at a Ford Dealer, request a copy of the full OASIS report. This report will give any background history on the car as long as it was previously serviced at any Ford Dealership in the US. It will have prior repair orders, warranty repair orders, recalls, Buy Back info, other misc. facts etc.

The OASIS will NOT have any maintenance or repair history that was done outside of a Ford Dealer - and it’s not a “CarFax” type of VIN reporting document.

Did you Google your VIN before buying to see if it surfaced online elsewhere? This works in many instances IF the vehicle VIN was ever listed for sale before OR if the vehicle VIN was a prior salvage title and was at any such salvage auction.

If the vehicle was a prior Ford Buy Back, any selling Dealership must make this aware to any potential buyer of that vehicle. In nearly all cases, the vehicle should have a decal on the B-pillar somewhere near or under the VCL decal that states it was part of a Ford Buy Back claim. Of course people can remove the decal, BUT it will be documented in any Ford OASIS and on most VIN reporting agency reports IF it was a prior Lemon/Buy Back.

As far as Lemon Law recourse - you’re wasting your time (and possibly money) hiring any such Attorney. As stated previously, the car has exceeded any such provisions and limitations set forth by nearly all US State’s Lemon Law provisions and claims processes.

I did and went through the Lemon Law/Buy Back process a few years back with a prior 2016 S550. I did it myself without any Attorney and was successful. I also documented it extensively on this site and there’s many threads on here where I’ve provided details on how it works (going through Ford). Just search “lemon”, “lemon law”, “Ford buy back”, “buy back”, “MSRP to MSRP”, etc. on here and you will find/hit on 1 or many of those threads.

But like I said, in your case and unfortunately you don’t have any Lemon Law/Buy Back recourse at this stage. Even if you get some Attorney that will say yes to take the case, you’ll be locked in limbo with the Attorney, the Dealer and the repair efforts. You’ll be on the Attorney’s time and priorities, not yours so don’t expect quick turn around. It will cost you more time and most likely money than necessary, not to mention the frustrations.

As far as a any Extended or aftermarket Warranties:
If you have some 3rd Party aftermarket Warranty, because you’re saying you “think” you might have one - better call the Warranty Company and confirm you have a profile/account with them AND what “Tier” of warranty coverage so you know EXACTLY what you have and are up against.

The most important aspects of ANY aftermarket or 3rd Party Warranties are:
- what is NOT covered; anything not covered by the Warranty will be an out of pocket expense to you. If it’s not explicitly stated in the warranty document or fine print it’s NOT covered. If it’s in the fine print as an “exclusion”, it’s NOT covered. There isn’t any gray area…

- how that Company will review a major claim such as a costly complete engine replacement.

Some of these 3rd Party Warranty Companies take your money to get you “in” their Contract and will try to do anything in their power to deny a claim WHEN you try to file a major one….

Document everything that is transpiring between you and the servicing Ford Dealership and any conversations/correspondence with the Warranty Company.

 

[JAJ]

Hi all - Wanted to ask if anyone in the group lives in PA and has had lemon law experience.

Bought a 2018 GT350 with 12,400 miles. There was dealership warranty for 1-month / 1,000 miles. I had a check engine light come on at around 13,200 miles and let the dealership know within the allowed warranty timeframe.

From a quick conversation with my sales rep, he said they can not and will not cover any damages or repairs and that the warranty was for their in house technician. He also said they are not liable if anything serious happened to the car under my possession. Basically said you bought it as-is not our problem.

I dropped the car off at a Ford dealership last Monday and they just got back to me and said multiple cylinders are cracked.

From my quick read online, PA does not have lemon laws on used vehicles. I have contacted a lemon law lawyer in PA but wanted to know if anyone here thinks it's a lost cause.

The ford technician believes the issue was there before I even received the car but they are continuing to look for the root of the problem. But their initial feedback was that the cylinders are cracked and will very likely need a new engine.

Have they told you what codes came up?

When I read this thread, what I see is you saying "I got a CEL, took the car to the dealer and they said the cylinders were cracked".

The response from owners of these engines sounds like "we don't see cracked cylinders" when they look at the pictures.

While lots of things are possible, they might just be trying to sell you a new engine that you might not need.

If you want more insight from this forum, get the actual codes and post them.

 

[illtal]

Could bring it to a specialist. Ford dealership mechanics sometimes are just above shade Bridgestone mechanics.

 

[gilbenja]

Since the car appears to be at a Ford Dealer, request a copy of the full OASIS report. This report will give any background history on the car as long as it was previously serviced at any Ford Dealership in the US. It will have prior repair orders, warranty repair orders, recalls, Buy Back info, other misc. facts etc.

The OASIS will NOT have any maintenance or repair history that was done outside of a Ford Dealer - and it’s not a “CarFax” type of VIN reporting document.

Did you Google your VIN before buying to see if it surfaced online elsewhere? This works in many instances IF the vehicle VIN was ever listed for sale before OR if the vehicle VIN was a prior salvage title and was at any such salvage auction.

If the vehicle was a prior Ford Buy Back, any selling Dealership must make this aware to any potential buyer of that vehicle. In nearly all cases, the vehicle should have a decal on the B-pillar somewhere near or under the VCL decal that states it was part of a Ford Buy Back claim. Of course people can remove the decal, BUT it will be documented in any Ford OASIS and on most VIN reporting agency reports IF it was a prior Lemon/Buy Back.

As far as Lemon Law recourse - you’re wasting your time (and possibly money) hiring any such Attorney. As stated previously, the car has exceeded any such provisions and limitations set forth by nearly all US State’s Lemon Law provisions and claims processes.

I did and went through the Lemon Law/Buy Back process a few years back with a prior 2016 S550. I did it myself without any Attorney and was successful. I also documented it extensively on this site and there’s many threads on here where I’ve provided details on how it works (going through Ford). Just search “lemon”, “lemon law”, “Ford buy back”, “buy back”, “MSRP to MSRP”, etc. on here and you will find/hit on 1 or many of those threads.

But like I said, in your case and unfortunately you don’t have any Lemon Law/Buy Back recourse at this stage. Even if you get some Attorney that will say yes to take the case, you’ll be locked in limbo with the Attorney, the Dealer and the repair efforts. You’ll be on the Attorney’s time and priorities, not yours so don’t expect quick turn around. It will cost you more time and most likely money than necessary, not to mention the frustrations.

As far as a any Extended or aftermarket Warranties:
If you have some 3rd Party aftermarket Warranty, because you’re saying you “think” you might have one - better call the Warranty Company and confirm you have a profile/account with them AND what “Tier” of warranty coverage so you know EXACTLY what you have and are up against.

The most important aspects of ANY aftermarket or 3rd Party Warranties are:
- what is NOT covered; anything not covered by the Warranty will be an out of pocket expense to you. If it’s not explicitly stated in the warranty document or fine print it’s NOT covered. If it’s in the fine print as an “exclusion”, it’s NOT covered. There isn’t any gray area…

- how that Company will review a major claim such as a costly complete engine replacement.

Some of these 3rd Party Warranty Companies take your money to get you “in” their Contract and will try to do anything in their power to deny a claim WHEN you try to file a major one….

Document everything that is transpiring between you and the servicing Ford Dealership and any conversations/correspondence with the Warranty Company.

Thanks for the in depth reply. I did check the oasis report prior to buying the car. The only thing was a replaced fuel injector line.

The VIN came back clean and there was a very diligent service record with the car having oil changes either every ~2k miles or 6 months.

I don't believe it was a buyback but no one mentioned anything on this.

The insurance/warranty I have is a 6 month / 6k mile limited powertrain with Zurich. I'm planning on calling on Monday when they're open.

 

[gilbenja]

My interpretation of the lines on the cylinder walls is not one of cracks, but impact damage, a result from the pistons slapping or rattling against them. The marks have compromised the crosshatch pattern as a result. I can think of several causes, all of which involve someone not giving the engine a full warm-up before stressing it, abusing or not caring for it. Maybe the reason for the trade-in. Clear engine codes. Sell to dealer. All of which is speculation on my part.

I did some queries on Zurich Plans. It reads like even their most basic plan covers engine replacement.

Best Wishes on claim approval and a new engine. If you have time, please keep up updated.

https://www.zurichprotectionplandetails.com/vehicle-service-contract

https://edge.sitecorecloud.io/zuric...kh/auto/p0666198_vehicle_service_contract.pdf

Gasoline engine: all internally lubricated parts, including pistons, connecting rods and rod bearings, crankshaft and main bearings, camshaft, cam chains, timing chain, gears, tensioner and guide, variable valve timing parts, rocker arms, rocker arm pivots, valves, valve seats, valve springs, valve spring retainers, valve guides, valve push rods, hydraulic valve lifters, oil pump, oil pump drive, shaft and gears. Plus, these non-internally lubricated parts: water pump, fuel pump, valve covers, oil pan, timing belt, timing chain/belt cover, engine mounts, flywheel, flex plate, harmonic balancer, belt tensioner and idler pulley(s), intake and exhaust manifolds. Factory-installed supercharger/turbocharger. Seals and gaskets. Cylinder head, engine block and rotor housings. Fluids.

Thanks so much for sending this. I am still waiting for an official diagnosis from Ford. The dealership service guy did say that Zurich is generally good with claims on this kind of issue. Hoping to get all this sorted out.

Based on the carfax and low mileage, I assumed the previous owner took good care of the car. I saw that he had a trip history with over 4k miles averaging ~16 mpg, which in my eyes, means he wasn't beating on the car.

Car also had very good service records with oil changes every 2k miles or 6 months.

I will be sure to update everyone here.

 

[gilbenja]

Have they told you what codes came up?

When I read this thread, what I see is you saying "I got a CEL, took the car to the dealer and they said the cylinders were cracked".

The response from owners of these engines sounds like "we don't see cracked cylinders" when they look at the pictures.

While lots of things are possible, they might just be trying to sell you a new engine that you might not need.

If you want more insight from this forum, get the actual codes and post them.

I pulled the code myself on the first check engine light which was a P0300. Still waiting on Ford to give me something in writing.

 

[gilbenja]

Read your warranty. I had one that said all of what Skye points out, BUT had one sentence tucked into it a paragraph or two later that stated it would not replace engine parts if the failure was due to a lack of oiling. So basically the warrant

The slight scoring on the cylinder wall isn't massively concerning. I don't see any cracks. The block in my garage from the stock motor had some on every cylinder and never threw a CEL, but the real failure was the rod and main bearings. Those scratches, if you cannot feel them with your finger nail, are somewhat normal from everything I've read. Definitely not ideal, and eventually will lead to a failure, but shouldn't be the cause of a CEL.

What was the code for the CEL?

The initial code was P0300 that cleared itself. But then the light came back up. Not sure what it was the second time.

Based on what Skye sent above, it looks like there is no language that you are mentioning in the exclusions. (see below)

"Exclusions

Any part not specifically listed in your contract as covered under the coverage plan you selected, including, but not limited to, any of

the following parts:

Glass, lenses, sealed beams, light bulbs, wheels, wheel covers, tires, interior trim, moldings, bright metal parts, sheet metal, flexible body

parts, frame and sub-frames, weather strips, upholstery, convertible and/or vinyl top, paint and coatings, catalytic converter, exhaust system,

brake rotors and drums, wiper blades, coolant hoses, all batteries including the high-voltage EV/Hybrid battery installed by the manufacturer

unless listed under your coverage, spark/glow plugs, drive belts, brake pads, brake linings and shoes, and manual clutch disc. Repairs of water

and air leaks, rattles, squeaks and wind noise, alignment of body parts, bumpers, as well as glass, rust, and physical damage are not covered.

Any parts or components that are not factory installed are not covered.

In addition, the normal maintenance services and parts required or recommended by your vehicle manufacturer and other normal maintenance

services and parts, including engine tune up, suspension alignment, wheel balancing and filters are not covered."

 

[sk47]

Does the car otherwise run fine?

Hello; Others have covered the warranty well. Something missing is what happened to cause you (the OP) to take the car into a shop. What caused you to go to the lengths of having bore scope images taken from inside the cylinders? This is not routine.
Was the engine burning oil or making some sort of noise? The scoring/ scratches of the cylinder walls are not ideal to be sure, but engines will run with such. I read thru the thread again just now and may have missed what lead up to the possibility of needing a new engine.

 

[gilbenja]

Hello; Others have covered the warranty well. Something missing is what happened to cause you (the OP) to take the car into a shop. What caused you to go to the lengths of having bore scope images taken from inside the cylinders? This is not routine.
Was the engine burning oil or making some sort of noise? The scoring/ scratches of the cylinder walls are not ideal to be sure, but engines will run with such. I read thru the thread again just now and may have missed what lead up to the possibility of needing a new engine.

Bought the car and checked oil level every 200 miles. Always read fine (was just at the second hole at the dipstick).

Flashing check engine light came on while driving on the highway. I pulled over and the check engine disappeared on its own. Went to auto zone and they showed a P0300 misfire. Drove the car a few days later. The check engine light flashed again, but this time stayed on the dash. Went to ford to have it diagnosed. I did not request them to look at the cylinders that is just what they did.

 

[sk47]

Bought the car and checked oil level every 200 miles. Always read fine (was just at the second hole at the dipstick).

Flashing check engine light came on while driving on the highway. I pulled over and the check engine disappeared on its own. Went to auto zone and they showed a P0300 misfire. Drove the car a few days later. The check engine light flashed again, but this time stayed on the dash. Went to ford to have it diagnosed. I did not request them to look at the cylinders that is just what they did.

ford p0300 misfire code causes - Search

Hello; I did a search for the code. Came back as expected. Here on I am guessing. I get that experienced mechanics learn individual models and or engines. So, it may be experience led them to run a bore scope into the sparkplug holes.
I also understand an experienced shop might follow clues a shade tree like me would miss. What i do not yet get is the "why" you might need a new engine. The scoring of a cylinder wall is not good on it's own. But if it was not drinking oil or knocking or some other notable thing then as another has stated, engines can run with scored cylinders.

I am not questioning the shops prediction. They may have checked the oil or opened the filter. I do not know if your engine has a magnetic drain plug, but if it does the plug may have looked like a fuzz ball with metal shavings. Maybe some other clue(s) led them to such a conclusion.

Heres to you getting some relief from the warranty and avoiding an expensive engine replacement. Good luck

 

[gilbenja]

Bought the car and checked oil level every 200 miles. Always read fine (was just at the second hole at the dipstick).

Flashing check engine light came on while driving on the highway. I pulled over and the check engine disappeared on its own. Went to auto zone and they showed a P0300 misfire. Drove the car a few days later. The check engine light flashed again, but this time stayed on the dash. Went to ford to have it diagnosed. I did not request them to look at the cylinders that is just what they did.

ford p0300 misfire code causes - Search

Hello; I did a search for the code. Came back as expected. Here on I am guessing. I get that experienced mechanics learn individual models and or engines. So, it may be experience led them to run a bore scope into the sparkplug holes.
I also understand an experienced shop might follow clues a shade tree like me would miss. What i do not yet get is the "why" you might need a new engine. The scoring of a cylinder wall is not good on it's own. But if it was not drinking oil or knocking or some other notable thing then as another has stated, engines can run with scored cylinders.

I am not questioning the shops prediction. They may have checked the oil or opened the filter. I do not know if your engine has a magnetic drain plug, but if it does the plug may have looked like a fuzz ball with metal shavings. Maybe some other clue(s) led them to such a conclusion.

Heres to you getting some relief from the warranty and avoiding an expensive engine replacement. Good luck

Went back to the dealership just now. Maybe I misheard or he misspoke the first time but he just said there is a possibility that the engine is ok.

he said they’re still doing multiple tests, like fuel testing, and ruling out any basic issues. It will then get escalated to the engine replacement crew and some higher ups at the dealership to give a final say as to whether or not it needs a new engine.

but what I was previously saying was based on my initial conversation where he said / implied that off the record I’m pretty sure your engine is fucked. Basically just said it’s not looking good based on what the technician is saying but now he updated me today and said there still are a lot of hurdles before we deem the need for a replacement.

 

[robvas]

Bought the car and checked oil level every 200 miles. Always read fine (was just at the second hole at the dipstick).

Flashing check engine light came on while driving on the highway. I pulled over and the check engine disappeared on its own. Went to auto zone and they showed a P0300 misfire. Drove the car a few days later. The check engine light flashed again, but this time stayed on the dash. Went to ford to have it diagnosed. I did not request them to look at the cylinders that is just what they did.

If it's not using oil (I'd want to see the plugs and tops of pistons) I wouldn't even worry about it

could be a number of things causing the misfire

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