BBQ Tick Test Request

[Condor1970]

Well, when I change the oil in the next couple months, I'll check and see if any tick returns.

If so, I have a really steep hill by my house I could see if it makes any change in noise.

Right now, she's quiet as a mouse.

Sponsored

 

[stangman638]

I have heard the ticking with my front tires on ramps just the same as on flat ground. However, my car is now in the shop for the issue and the tech determined that it was excessive rod side clearance. After measuring he found that the rod side clearance was over double spec, on two different bearings. He showed it to me and it was very evident. Had a lot of side to side play and make the exact typewriter tick noise when moved side to side by hand. Ford approved a short block, however it’s in backorder for a month and a half.

A ford tech I spoke to today about a chirping noise, (thinks its a dry rocker) .. said the tick thing is more than likely clearance issue.

 

[Jetnoise]

A ford tech I spoke to today..... .. said the tick thing is more than likely clearance issue.

If that’s true ....it will cost Ford millions.$$$
Out of spec is out of spec.... everyone drop your pans....
Their recent release regarding the tick as normal is a big lie and I’m heading to my dealership to complain to document my mileage to assist with my buy back.negotiatiion.
Seems like Everything from short block ...long blocks...head gaskets are on back order. Hmmm that’s my ticket to lemon law it at a latter date.
Thoughts? Opinions?
If it’s truley an issue we all should get it documented under the vin history.

 

[VelR5.0GT]

I said it in a previous post. If Ford can sweep the possible rod clearance issue under the normal tick sound, well, prepare to be denied any warranty until the engine blows up. This is really sad to see. Who wants to deal with the dealer and all their known customer service problems on their brand new car? After all, most of the individuals that buy the 5.0 mustang is because they are fans of them.

Some people have tons of money and don't care and would tell you to just "send it"!! Really? Who wants to pay for a new car just to be broken and at the end if Ford doesn't cover it you'll have to spend you own money to fix it? If your plans are to have a built short block and have the money then go for it or otherwise buy a cheap '18 with suspiciously low miles and have at it.

Honestly, I am happy that all these issues are being shared and not because of the bad luck of the owners. This seriously pains me as I am a Ford fan and was looking forward to get me an '18 5.0 A10 but at this rate there's just no way that I'm willing to deal with the possible headaches.

 

[fmc_smt]

OK so I have been reading the service manuals for engine assembly on all 3 gen 5.0 . No where in the manual does it have you check rod side clearance . I've also did some research , all be it on the Internet , that the rod it self is considered a self centering rod . As for checking side clearance , there are 2 rods on each crank throw . That leaves three gaps to be measured . The spec in the service manual states a .5 mm max clearance , is that a stacked clearance of all three gaps or the clearance of each gap ? If it is for each gap then the true max spec would be 1.5 mm for a total stacked clearance . Or am I over thinking it . Also noted in the service manual the gen 1 an 2 use a different oil pick up tube design then the gen 3 . Also noted that the gen 1 and 2 use a mechanical oil presume control , where the gen 3 is elictronic . Last thought being an owner of a 2015 that doesn't have a tick , or I don't hear it over the procharger and exhaust , i must have a problem with it . Everyone else has the tick , so it must be normal

 

[GT Pony]

OK so I have been reading the service manuals for engine assembly on all 3 gen 5.0 . No where in the manual does it have you check rod side clearance . I've also did some research , all be it on the Internet , that the rod it self is considered a self centering rod . As for checking side clearance , there are 2 rods on each crank throw . That leaves three gaps to be measured . The spec in the service manual states a .5 mm max clearance , is that a stacked clearance of all three gaps or the clearance of each gap ? If it is for each gap then the true max spec would be 1.5 mm for a total stacked clearance . Or am I over thinking it . Also noted in the service manual the gen 1 an 2 use a different oil pick up tube design then the gen 3 . Also noted that the gen 1 and 2 use a mechanical oil presume control , where the gen 3 is elictronic . Last thought being an owner of a 2015 that doesn't have a tick , or I don't hear it over the procharger and exhaust , i must have a problem with it . Everyone else has the tick , so it must be normal

It's the total gap of the rod assembly on the crankshaft. So if you stuck a feeler gauge in between the two rods (red arrow location) it better be within the spec outlined in the service manual. There is no way the stacked clearance would be 1.5 mm. See where it says "as assembled to crank".

 

[fmc_smt]

The part in red is the total gap of the assembly. So if you stuck a feeler gauge in between to two rods (red arrow location) it better be within the spec outlined in the service manual. There is no way the stacked clearance would be 1.5 mm. See where it says "as assembled crank".

Please Stat what section of the wsm that illustration is from . I surched and could not find

 

[GT Pony]

Please Stat what section of the wsm that illustration is from . I surched and could not find

Search in the service manual for the words "connecting rod".

 

[fmc_smt]

Search in the service manual for the words "connecting rod".

So I did , se results below . I see nothing for side clearance . I also reread disassembly and assembly , and no reference to rod side clearance .
19 procedures found containing connecting rod

Connecting Rod Bearing Journal Clearance (General Procedures, 303-00 Engine System - General Information)
Piston Inspection (General Procedures, 303-00 Engine System - General Information)
Specifications (Specifications, 303-01A Engine - 2.3L EcoBoost (231kW/314PS))
Engine - Overview (Description and Operation, 303-01A Engine - 2.3L EcoBoost (231kW/314PS))
Piston (Disassembly and Assembly of Subassemblies, 303-01A Engine - 2.3L EcoBoost (231kW/314PS))
Specifications (Specifications, 303-01C Engine - 5.2L 32V Ti-VCT)
Engine - Overview (Description and Operation, 303-01C Engine - 5.2L 32V Ti-VCT)
Piston (Disassembly and Assembly of Subassemblies, 303-01C Engine - 5.2L 32V Ti-VCT)
Engine (Diagnosis and Testing, 303-00 Engine System - General Information)
Engine (Disassembly, 303-01C Engine - 5.2L 32V Ti-VCT)
Engine (Assembly, 303-01C Engine - 5.2L 32V Ti-VCT)
Engine (Disassembly, 303-01A Engine - 2.3L EcoBoost (231kW/314PS))
Engine (Assembly, 303-01A Engine - 2.3L EcoBoost (231kW/314PS))
Engine - Overview (Description and Operation, 303-01B Engine - 5.0L Ti-VCT V8 (308kW/418PS))
Engine (Disassembly, 303-01B Engine - 5.0L Ti-VCT V8 (308kW/418PS))
Piston (Disassembly and Assembly of Subassemblies, 303-01B Engine - 5.0L Ti-VCT V8 (308kW/418PS))
Engine (Assembly, 303-01B Engine - 5.0L Ti-VCT V8 (308kW/418PS))
Specifications (Specifications, 303-01B Engine - 5.0L Ti-VCT V8 (308kW/418PS))
Engine Component View (Description and Operation, 303-01A Engine - 2.3L EcoBoost (231kW/314PS

 

[GT Pony]

@fmc_smt - what info are you looking for with respect to the rod side clearance? If it's how to measure it, just do a Google seatch as all engines will be measured the same. As I mentioned earlier, it's the total stacked side clearance of the two paired rods when assembled on the crank journal. See post #22 above.

 

[fmc_smt]

@GT Pony , the point I am trying to make is Ford does not care about rod side clearance . I know how to measure it , but no where in the Ford service manuals from the gen 1 to the gen 3 engines is a reference to measure side clearance . I know there is a spec for it , but with the rod being a " self centering rod " Ford is not concerned with the that measurement. If you look at the manual and not Google the only measurement taken during the assembly process is crankshaft end play . If you also note what I posted was there is a procedure to measure rod bearing clearance . If you also look at the main bearings for the crank that are to be used you need to have the machining codes off the block and crankshaft to make sure the correct bearings are installed . I think a manual for repair is more accurate then Google with a generic picture that is not referenced in the OEM manual .

 

[GT Pony]

Here's some info on rod side clearance in the link below. See the photo where the feeler gauge is stuck in between the two rods. That is how you check the total stacked (assembled) rod side clearance. Regardless if it's one rod or two rods on a crank journal, the rod side clearance is always the total clearance of the assembly.

Also note that some engines have the radius cut differently on each side of the rod face, so the rods need to go on in a specific orientation on the crank journal. I'm not sure if the Coyote is that way, but if it is then maybe engines that tick might have some rods installed out 180 degrees from where they should be (ie, the wrong side facing the opposite direction).

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/checking-rod-side-clearance-dont-assume.4690/

 

[GT Pony]

@GT Pony , the point I am trying to make is Ford does not care about rod side clearance . I know how to measure it , but no where in the Ford service manuals from the gen 1 to the gen 3 engines is a reference to measure side clearance . I know there is a spec for it , but with the rod being a " self centering rod " Ford is not concerned with the that measurement. If you look at the manual and not Google the only measurement taken during the assembly process is crankshaft end play . If you also note what I posted was there is a procedure to measure rod bearing clearance . If you also look at the main bearings for the crank that are to be used you need to have the machining codes off the block and crankshaft to make sure the correct bearings are installed . I think a manual for repair is more accurate then Google with a generic picture that is not referenced in the OEM manual .

Sure Ford cares ... if they didn't they wouldn't have a standard and max clearance spec in the service manual. They don't show how to measure it because about anyone who knows anything about working on a bottom end knows how to measure rod side clearance with a feeler gauge.

So maybe Ford just machines out rods and crankshafts and never checks assembled rod side clearance. If so, they are seriously lacking a big step in the engine manufacturing and assembly process. If that's the case then I'm really not surprised there are engines with rod side clearances out of spec.

There is LOTS of room for error when building a bottom end - ie, crank machining, bearing caps, bearings, rods, rod bearing, etc, etc ... it all needs to fit together perfectly with very specific clearances.

I think a lot of people over look rod side clearance. It's just as important as any other critical clearance setup on a motor. If it wasn't they wouldn't show a specification in the service manual.

 

[fmc_smt]

@GT Pony please note , from the service manual of a 2018 5.0 disassembly and assembly . Where is side clearance check during these procedures ? I can also cut and paste from the general procedures also .

1. Remove the bolts, stud bolts and the oil pump.

1. • Before removing the pistons, inspect the top of the cylinder bores.
   • If necessary, remove the ridge or carbon deposits from each cylinder using an abrasive pad.

1. NOTICE: Verify that the connecting rod and rod cap have orientation numbers cast into them. If not, number the connecting rod and rod cap for correct orientation. Failure to do so can result in engine damage.
   
   Remove the bolts and the connecting rod cap.

1. NOTICE: Do not scratch the cylinder walls or crankshaft journals with the connecting rod or engine damage may occur.
   
   Remove the piston through the top of the cylinder block

1. Repeat the previous 2 steps for each of the remaining pistons.

1. Disassemble the 8 pistons.
   Refer to: Piston (303-01B Engine - 5.0L Ti-VCT V8 (308kW/418PS), Disassembly and Assembly of Subassemblies).

1. 1. Remove and discard the cross-mounted main cap bolts.
   1. Remove and discard the main bearing cap bolts and stud bolt.

1. Remove the main bearing caps (1), the lower crankshaft main bearings (2) and the lower thrust bearing (3).

1. Remove the crankshaft (1), the upper crankshaft main bearings (2) and the upper thrust washer (3) from the cylinder block.

1. Remove the bolts and the piston cooling jets from the cylinder block.

1. Record the main bearing code found on the front of the engine block.

1. Record the main bearing code found on the rear of the crankshaft.

1. NOTE: This chart is for selecting main bearings 1 and 5 only, the remaining bearings will be selected using a different chart in the next step.
   
   Using the data recorded earlier and the Bearing Select Fit Chart, Standard Bearings, determine the required bearing grade for main bearings 1 and 5.
   1. Maximum crankshaft journal diameter
   1. Minimum block bore diameter
   • Read the first letter of the engine block main bearing code and the first letter of the crankshaft main bearing code.
   • Read down the column below the engine block main bearing code letter and across the row next to the crankshaft main bearing code letter, until the 2 intersect. This is the required bearing grade(s) for the No. 1 crankshaft main bearing.
   • As an example, if the engine block code letter is "F" and the crankshaft code letter is "P", the correct bearing grade for this main bearing is a "1" for the upper bearing and a "2" for the lower bearing.
   • Repeat the above steps using the fifth letter of the block and crankshaft codes to select the No. 5 bearing.

1. NOTE: This chart is for selecting main bearings 2, 3 and 4 only.
   
   Using the data recorded earlier and the Bearing Select Fit Chart, Standard Bearings, determine the required bearing grade for main bearings 2, 3 and 4.
   1. Maximum crankshaft journal diameter
   1. Minimum block bore diameter
   • Read the second letter of the engine block main bearing code and the second letter of the crankshaft main bearing code.
   • Read down the column below the engine block main bearing code letter and across the row next to the crankshaft main bearing code letter, until the 2 intersect. This is the required bearing grade(s) for the No. 2 crankshaft main bearing
   • As an example, if the engine block code letter is "F" and the crankshaft code letter is "P", the correct bearing grade for this main bearing is a "1" for the upper bearing and a "2" for the lower bearing
   • Repeat the above steps using the third and fourth letters of the block and crankshaft codes to select the No. 3 and No. 4 bearings.

1. Install the piston cooling jets and bolts.
   Torque:
   Stage 1: 89 lb.in (10 Nm)
   Stage 2: 45°

1. Install the crankshaft main bearings.
   • Install the crankshaft upper main bearings into the cylinder block.
   • Install the crankshaft lower main bearings and thrust bearing into the bearing caps.
   • Make sure all oil passages are aligned.
   • Lubricate all main bearings with clean engine oil.

1. NOTE: Lubricate the crankshaft bearing journals with clean engine oil.
   
   Install the crankshaft into the cylinder block.

1. NOTE: The oil groove on the thrust washer must face toward the rear of the engine (against the crankshaft thrust surface).
   
   NOTE: Lubricate the thrust washer with clean engine oil.
   
   Push the crankshaft rearward and install the rear crankshaft upper thrust washer at the back of the No. 5 main boss.

1. NOTE: Lubricate the fastener threads with clean engine oil.
   
   Install the main bearing caps and fasteners on the cylinder block and, keeping the caps as square as possible, alternately draw the caps down evenly using the cap fasteners.

1. Push the crankshaft forward to seat the crankshaft thrust washer.

1. Tighten the vertical main bearing cap fasteners.
   Torque:
   Stage 1: 1 through 20: 177 lb.in (20 Nm)
   Stage 2: 1 through 10: 30 lb.ft (40 Nm)
   Stage 3: 11 through 20 : 48 lb.ft (65 Nm)
   Stage 4: 1 through 20: 90°

1. Install the cross-mounted main bearing cap fasteners.
   Torque:
   Stage 1: 89 lb.in (10 Nm)
   Stage 2: 22 lb.ft (30 Nm)
   Stage 3: 60°

1. • Check the crankshaft end play.
     Refer to: Specifications (303-01B Engine - 5.0L Ti-VCT V8 (308kW/418PS), Specifications).
   • Check that crankshaft torque-to-turn does not exceed 6 Nm (53 lb-in).
   • Check the piston-to-cylinder block and piston ring clearances.
     Refer to: Specifications (303-01B Engine - 5.0L Ti-VCT V8 (308kW/418PS), Specifications).
   • Assemble the pistons and position the piston ring gaps.
     Refer to: Piston (303-01B Engine - 5.0L Ti-VCT V8 (308kW/418PS), Disassembly and Assembly of Subassemblies).

1. Lubricate with clean engine oil and install the connecting rod bearings.

1. NOTICE: Do not allow the piston connecting rods to come in contact with the piston cooling jets or engine damage may occur.
   
   NOTICE: Be sure not to scratch the cylinder wall or crankshaft journal with the connecting rod. Push the piston down until the connecting rod bearing seats on the crankshaft journal.
   
   NOTICE: Be sure not to scratch the cylinder wall or crankshaft journal with the connecting rod. Push the piston down until the connecting rod bearing seats on the crankshaft journal.
   
   NOTE: Lubricate the piston with clean engine oil.
   
   • Using a piston ring compressor, install the piston.
     Use the General Equipment: Piston Ring Compressor

1. NOTICE: The rod cap installation must keep the same orientation as marked during disassembly or engine damage may occur.
   
   NOTE: The connecting rod caps are of the "cracked" design and must mate with the connecting rod ends. Excessive bearing clearance will result if not mated correctly.
   
   
   Install the connecting rod cap and bearing.
   • Install the new bolts hand tight.

1. Repeat the previous 2 steps for each of the remaining pistons.

1. Tighten the connecting rod bolts.
   Torque:
   Stage 1: 177 lb.in (20 Nm)
   Stage 2: 28 lb.ft (38 Nm)
   Stage 3: 105°

1. Prime the oil pump. Add 2 tablespoons of clean engine oil to the oil pump and rotate the oil pump by hand.

1. NOTE: Oil pump must be held against the cylinder block until all bolts are tightened.
   
   • Rotate the inner rotor of the oil pump assembly to align the flats on the crankshaft and slip the oil pump over the crankshaft until seated against the block.
   • Rotate the oil pump until the bolt holes are aligned to the block and install the fasteners hand tight.
     Torque:
     Stage 1: A: 89 lb.in (10 Nm)
     Stage 2: B: 18 lb.ft (25 Nm)
     Stage 3: C: 89 lb.in (10 Nm)
     Stage 4: D: 177 lb.in (20 Nm)
     Stage 5: A: 45°
     Stage 6: B: 75°
     Stage 7: C: 45°
     Stage 8: D: 60°

 

[GT Pony]

@GT Pony please note , from the service manual of a 2018 5.0 disassembly and assembly . Where is side clearance check during these procedures ? I can also cut and paste from the general procedures also.

Obviously Ford is missing a critical clearance measuring step. The rod side clearance is as critical as any other clearance setup on a motor. Does the 2018 manual specify a rod side clearance specification like I showed in Post #22?

Sponsored