BBQ Tick Test Request

[GT Pony]

My theory on the BBQ tick (typewriter tick) has always been excessive rod side clearance and/or excessive crankshaft end play clearance.

Thinking about this some, I have a test in mind that might give more info on this theory. That test is to have someone that definitely has the ticking at idle drive the car up a very steep driveway or hill and stop, let it idle in that position and see if the ticking changes or stops. Or put the front of the car upon some ramps to get the front end pointed up pretty good so see if the ticking at idle changes or stops.

Doing the steep hill or the steep ramps would make the rods and crankshaft shift towards the back of the engine with gravity and keep them there instead of moving around side-to-side (if that's what they are doing to make the ticking noise), and that would possibly change or stop the ticking if it's caused by excessive rod side or crank end play clearances.

Anyone here with a distinct BBQ tick at idle that wants to try this out and report back what you hear?

Sponsored

 

[fmc_smt]

^^^^^^^^^What he said^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[gmupatriot]

Anyone else notice that their car sounds like a diesel engine at idle when heard while sitting INSIDE the car. I have Ceratec added to the oil and I do not hear the ticking/tapping anymore (inside or outside the car), however, the dieselesque sound I hear at idle from the inside is there and just plain sounds bad. Sounds like a Ford diesel truck lol

 

[GT Pony]

If I was as interested in the various noises coming from the DI Coyotes as you I'd trade in the black '15 and buy a '19 GT. Hopefully you'd get one with the tick and the rattle.

^^^^^^^^^What he said^^^^^^^^^^^

LOL ... not quite willing to go that route to test out a theory.

Even though my GT sounds very quiet I'm still very interested in the whole BBQ tick and 2K RPM rattle issue because I like trouble-shooting stuff like this.

I just think it would be interesting if a few guys with the BBQ tick could do a simple test like this to see if it reveals anything to support the theory.

But it seems the responses are just sarcastic ... I thought this was a community of Mustang enthusiasts willing to help each other out.

 

[88lx50]

My theory on the BBQ tick (typewriter tick) has always been excessive rod side clearance and/or excessive crankshaft end play clearance.

Thinking about this some, I have a test in mind that might give more info on this theory. That test is to have someone that definitely has the ticking at idle drive the car up a very steep driveway or hill and stop, let it idle in that position and see if the ticking changes or stops. Or put the front of the car upon some ramps to get the front end pointed up pretty good so see if the ticking at idle changes or stops.

Doing the steep hill or the steep ramps would make the rods and crankshaft shift towards the back of the engine with gravity and keep them there instead of moving around side-to-side (if that's what they are doing to make the ticking noise), and that would possibly change or stop the ticking if it's caused by excessive rod side or crank end play clearances.

Anyone here with a distinct BBQ tick at idle that wants to try this out and report back what you hear?

If my tick comes back I will help you out. Hopefully the noise doesn't return though.

 

[GT Pony]

@88lx50 - thanks

Everyone keeps saying they wish they knew what causes the BBQ tick since Ford won't ever say, so I'm just trying to test out a theory. Since guys who have the BBQ tick never see any metal debris in the oil or filter, it's got to be something that doesn't cause any wear which could simply be rod side clearance or crankshaft end play being a bit too large.

If the ticking changes or goes away with the front end of the car elevated up quite a bit then it's probably the rods and/or the crankshaft not banging together in that orientation anymore. The ticking is sensitive to loads on the crankshaft, as has been reported by some people.

 

[Superchomper2003]

I have heard the ticking with my front tires on ramps just the same as on flat ground. However, my car is now in the shop for the issue and the tech determined that it was excessive rod side clearance. After measuring he found that the rod side clearance was over double spec, on two different bearings. He showed it to me and it was very evident. Had a lot of side to side play and make the exact typewriter tick noise when moved side to side by hand. Ford approved a short block, however it’s in backorder for a month and a half.

 

[GT Pony]

I have heard the ticking with my front tires on ramps just the same as on flat ground. However, my car is now in the shop for the issue and the tech determined that it was excessive rod side clearance. After measuring he found that the rod side clearance was over double spec, on two different bearings. He showed it to me and it was very evident. Had a lot of side to side play and make the exact typewriter tick noise when moved side to side by hand. Ford approved a short block, however it’s in backorder for a month and a half.

Probably just like the video in the link below. That is what got me thinking about how to try and verify excessive rod/crank end play clearance by tilting front end of the car up to see if it makes any difference in the ticking noise. Might have to really tilt it up high, like going up a super steep driveway or ramps twice as tall as normal ramps. Thanks for the input.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/how-excessive-is-this-rod.108361/

 

[fmc_smt]

I have heard the ticking with my front tires on ramps just the same as on flat ground. However, my car is now in the shop for the issue and the tech determined that it was excessive rod side clearance. After measuring he found that the rod side clearance was over double spec, on two different bearings. He showed it to me and it was very evident. Had a lot of side to side play and make the exact typewriter tick noise when moved side to side by hand. Ford approved a short block, however it’s in backorder for a month and a half.

Can you post the techs findings ? The tech should have the measurements of what was found during his tear down .I have listed the spec from Ford below . Compare the findings for yourself and see if they are actually more then double the spec .
Specifications
Materials

Name Specification
Engine Oil - SAE 5W-20 - Synthetic Blend Motor Oil
XO-5W20-Q1SP WSS-M2C945-B1



Engine



Item Specification
Displacement 5.038 L (307 CID)
No. of cylinders 8
Bore 93.0 mm (3.661 in)
Stroke 92.7 mm (3.649 in)
Firing order 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2
Spark plug 12405
Spark plug gap 1.25-1.35 mm (0.049-0.053 in)
Compression ratio 12:1
Engine weight (W/O accessory drive components) 453.0 lb (205.5 kg)




Lubricants



Item Specification
Material: Engine Oil - SAE 5W-20 - Synthetic Blend Motor Oil / XO-5W20-Q1SP (WSS-M2C945-B1) WSS-M2C945-1




Engine Oil Capacity



Item Specification
Service fill including oil filter 10.0 qt (9.5 L)




Oil Pressure



Item Specification
Oil pressure @ idle with engine at normal operating temperature 10–15 psi (69–103 kPa)
Oil pressure @ 2,000 rpm with engine at normal operating temperature 30–40 psi (207–276 kPa)




Cylinder Head and Valve Train



Item Specification
Combustion chamber volume 3.33–3.51 in³ (54.5–57.5 cm³)
Valve stem diameter - intake 0.2352–0.2360 in (5.975–5.995 mm)
Valve stem diameter - exhaust 0.2343–0.2350 in (5.95–5.97 mm)
Valve stem-to-guide clearance - intake 0.0007–0.0027 in (.019–.069 mm)
Valve stem-to-guide clearance - exhaust 0.0017–0.0037 in (.044–.094 mm)
Valve head diameter - intake 1.48 in (37.7 mm)
Valve head diameter - exhaust 1.26 in (32 mm)
Valve face runout 0.0020 in (.05 mm)
Valve face angle 3 angle intake / 2 angle exhaust
Valve seat width - intake 0.047–0.055 in (1.2–1.4 mm)
Valve seat width - exhaust 0.055–0.063 in (1.4–1.6 mm)
Valve seat roundness 0.0098 in (.25 mm)
Valve seat to guide runout 0.0016 in (0.04 mm) at bottom of guide
Valve seat angle (degrees) - Intake 120/90/54 degrees
Valve seat angle (degrees) - Exhaust 120/100/60 degrees
Valve spring free length - intake 2.201 in (55.9 mm)
Valve spring free length - exhaust 2.201 in (55.9 mm)
Valve spring perpendicularity - intake 0.067 in (1.7 mm)
Valve spring perpendicularity - exhaust 0.067 in (1.7 mm)
Valve spring compression force - intake 813 N
Valve spring compression force - exhaust 813 N
Valve spring installed height - intake 1.7913 in (45.5 mm)
Valve spring installed height - exhaust 1.7913 in (45.5 mm)
Valve spring installed force - intake 293 N
Valve spring installed force - exhaust 293 N
Roller follower ratio 2.039:1 intake / 2.041:1 exhaust, max
Cylinder head gasket surface flatness 0.025 mm (0.001 in) in any 25 mm (1 in) x 25 mm (1 in) area; 0.050 mm (0.002 in) in any 150 mm (6 in) x 150 mm (6 in) area; 0.1 mm (0.004 in) overall




Hydraulic Lash Adjuster



Item Specification
Diameter — intake 0.472 in (12 mm)
Diameter — exhaust 0.472 in (12 mm)
Clearance-to-bore 0.0004–0.0020 in (.01–.051 mm)
Hydraulic leakdown rate — intake 0.45-3 secondsa
Hydraulic leakdown rate — exhaust 0.45-3 secondsa
Collapsed lash adjuster gap 0.0138–0.0335 in (.35–.85 mm)




Camshaft



Item Specification
Lobe lift - intake 0.2728 in (6.9279 mm)
Lobe lift - exhaust 0.2727 in (6.9254 mm)
Journal diameter 1.1268 in (28.62 mm)
Camshaft bearing bore inside diameter - Journal 1 (exhaust front) 1.3783–1.3792 in (35.008–35.032 mm)
Camshaft bearing bore inside diameter - Journal 2-10 1.1292–1.1282 in (28.682–28.657 mm)
Journal-to-bearing clearance - Journal 1 (exhaust front) 0.0011–0.0028 in (.028–.072 mm)
Journal-to-bearing clearance - Journal 2-10 0.0009–0.0030 in (.024–.075 mm)
Runout 0.0016 in (.04 mm)
End play - Intake 0.0028–0.0067 in (.07–.17 mm)
End play - Exhaust 0.0030–0.0065 in (.075–.165 mm)




Cylinder Block



Item Specification
Cylinder bore diameter 3.6614–3.6622 in (93–93.02 mm)
Cylinder bore maximum taper 0.0005 in (.013 mm)
Cylinder bore maximum out-of-round 0.0004 in (.01 mm)
Main bearing bore inside diameter 2.850–2.851 in (72.4–72.424 mm)
Head gasket surface flatness 0.0254 mm (0.001 in) across any 38.1 mm (1.5 in) square




Crankshaft



Item Specification
Main bearing journal diameter 2.657–2.658 in (67.481–67.505 mm)
Main bearing journal maximum taper 0.0002 in (.004 mm)
Main bearing journal maximum out-of-round 0.0002 in (.006 mm)
Main bearing journal-to-main bearing clearance 0.0010–0.0018 in (.025–.045 mm)
Connecting rod journal diameter 2.086–2.087 in (52.983–53.003 mm)
Connecting rod journal maximum taper 0.0002 in (.004 mm)
Connecting rod journal maximum out-of-round 0.0002 in (.006 mm)
Crankshaft maximum end play 0.0110 in (.28 mm)




Piston and Connecting Rod



Item Specification
Piston diameter - single grade 3.6284–3.6289 in (92.161–92.175 mm)
Piston-to-cylinder bore clearance (at grade size)b 0.0010–0.0023 in (.025–.059 mm)
Piston ring end gap - top 0.0079–0.0118 in (.2–.3 mm)
Piston ring end gap - intermediate 0.0197–0.0315 in (.5–.8 mm)
Piston ring end gap — oil control 0.0059–0.0177 in (.15–.45 mm)
Piston ring groove width - top 0.0480–0.0492 in (1.22–1.25 mm)
Piston ring groove width - intermediate 0.0480–0.0488 in (1.22–1.24 mm)
Piston ring groove width— oil control 0.0799–0.0807 in (2.03–2.05 mm)
Piston ring width - top 0.0461–0.0469 in (1.17–1.19 mm)
Piston ring width - intermediate 0.0461–0.0469 in (1.17–1.19 mm)
Piston ring-to-groove clearance - top 0.0012–0.0031 in (.03–.08 mm)
Piston ring-to-groove clearance - intermediate 0.0012–0.0028 in (.03–.07 mm)
Piston pin bore diameter 0.8663–0.8665 in (22.004–22.01 mm)
Piston pin diameter 0.8660–0.8661 in (21.997–22 mm)
Piston pin length 2.390–2.402 in (60.7–61 mm)
Piston pin-to-piston fit (clearance) 0.0002–0.0005 in (.004–.013 mm)
Connecting rod-to-pin clearance 0.0001–0.0007 in (.003–.018 mm)
Connecting rod pin bore diameter 0.8663–0.8667 in (22.003–22.015 mm)
Connecting rod length (center-to-center) 5.93 in (150.7 mm)
Connecting rod maximum allowed bend 0.0015 in (.038 mm)
Connecting rod maximum allowed twist 0.0020 in (.05 mm)
Connecting rod bearing-to-crankshaft clearance 0.0011–0.0027 in (.028–.069 mm)
Connecting rod side clearance (as assembled to crank) — standard play 0.0128 in (.325 mm)
Connecting rod side clearance (as assembled to crank) — max. play 0.0197 in (.5 mm)

• Time required for the plunger to leak down 1.6 mm of travel with 222 N force and leakdown fluid in the lash adjuster
• Before Grafal coating.

 

[Superchomper2003]

Can you post the techs findings ? The tech should have the measurements of what was found during his tear down .I have listed the spec from Ford below . Compare the findings for yourself and see if they are actually more then double the spec .
Specifications
Materials

Name Specification
Engine Oil - SAE 5W-20 - Synthetic Blend Motor Oil
XO-5W20-Q1SP WSS-M2C945-B1



Engine



Item Specification
Displacement 5.038 L (307 CID)
No. of cylinders 8
Bore 93.0 mm (3.661 in)
Stroke 92.7 mm (3.649 in)
Firing order 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2
Spark plug 12405
Spark plug gap 1.25-1.35 mm (0.049-0.053 in)
Compression ratio 12:1
Engine weight (W/O accessory drive components) 453.0 lb (205.5 kg)




Lubricants



Item Specification
Material: Engine Oil - SAE 5W-20 - Synthetic Blend Motor Oil / XO-5W20-Q1SP (WSS-M2C945-B1) WSS-M2C945-1




Engine Oil Capacity



Item Specification
Service fill including oil filter 10.0 qt (9.5 L)




Oil Pressure



Item Specification
Oil pressure @ idle with engine at normal operating temperature 10–15 psi (69–103 kPa)
Oil pressure @ 2,000 rpm with engine at normal operating temperature 30–40 psi (207–276 kPa)




Cylinder Head and Valve Train



Item Specification
Combustion chamber volume 3.33–3.51 in³ (54.5–57.5 cm³)
Valve stem diameter - intake 0.2352–0.2360 in (5.975–5.995 mm)
Valve stem diameter - exhaust 0.2343–0.2350 in (5.95–5.97 mm)
Valve stem-to-guide clearance - intake 0.0007–0.0027 in (.019–.069 mm)
Valve stem-to-guide clearance - exhaust 0.0017–0.0037 in (.044–.094 mm)
Valve head diameter - intake 1.48 in (37.7 mm)
Valve head diameter - exhaust 1.26 in (32 mm)
Valve face runout 0.0020 in (.05 mm)
Valve face angle 3 angle intake / 2 angle exhaust
Valve seat width - intake 0.047–0.055 in (1.2–1.4 mm)
Valve seat width - exhaust 0.055–0.063 in (1.4–1.6 mm)
Valve seat roundness 0.0098 in (.25 mm)
Valve seat to guide runout 0.0016 in (0.04 mm) at bottom of guide
Valve seat angle (degrees) - Intake 120/90/54 degrees
Valve seat angle (degrees) - Exhaust 120/100/60 degrees
Valve spring free length - intake 2.201 in (55.9 mm)
Valve spring free length - exhaust 2.201 in (55.9 mm)
Valve spring perpendicularity - intake 0.067 in (1.7 mm)
Valve spring perpendicularity - exhaust 0.067 in (1.7 mm)
Valve spring compression force - intake 813 N
Valve spring compression force - exhaust 813 N
Valve spring installed height - intake 1.7913 in (45.5 mm)
Valve spring installed height - exhaust 1.7913 in (45.5 mm)
Valve spring installed force - intake 293 N
Valve spring installed force - exhaust 293 N
Roller follower ratio 2.039:1 intake / 2.041:1 exhaust, max
Cylinder head gasket surface flatness 0.025 mm (0.001 in) in any 25 mm (1 in) x 25 mm (1 in) area; 0.050 mm (0.002 in) in any 150 mm (6 in) x 150 mm (6 in) area; 0.1 mm (0.004 in) overall




Hydraulic Lash Adjuster



Item Specification
Diameter — intake 0.472 in (12 mm)
Diameter — exhaust 0.472 in (12 mm)
Clearance-to-bore 0.0004–0.0020 in (.01–.051 mm)
Hydraulic leakdown rate — intake 0.45-3 secondsa
Hydraulic leakdown rate — exhaust 0.45-3 secondsa
Collapsed lash adjuster gap 0.0138–0.0335 in (.35–.85 mm)




Camshaft



Item Specification
Lobe lift - intake 0.2728 in (6.9279 mm)
Lobe lift - exhaust 0.2727 in (6.9254 mm)
Journal diameter 1.1268 in (28.62 mm)
Camshaft bearing bore inside diameter - Journal 1 (exhaust front) 1.3783–1.3792 in (35.008–35.032 mm)
Camshaft bearing bore inside diameter - Journal 2-10 1.1292–1.1282 in (28.682–28.657 mm)
Journal-to-bearing clearance - Journal 1 (exhaust front) 0.0011–0.0028 in (.028–.072 mm)
Journal-to-bearing clearance - Journal 2-10 0.0009–0.0030 in (.024–.075 mm)
Runout 0.0016 in (.04 mm)
End play - Intake 0.0028–0.0067 in (.07–.17 mm)
End play - Exhaust 0.0030–0.0065 in (.075–.165 mm)




Cylinder Block



Item Specification
Cylinder bore diameter 3.6614–3.6622 in (93–93.02 mm)
Cylinder bore maximum taper 0.0005 in (.013 mm)
Cylinder bore maximum out-of-round 0.0004 in (.01 mm)
Main bearing bore inside diameter 2.850–2.851 in (72.4–72.424 mm)
Head gasket surface flatness 0.0254 mm (0.001 in) across any 38.1 mm (1.5 in) square




Crankshaft



Item Specification
Main bearing journal diameter 2.657–2.658 in (67.481–67.505 mm)
Main bearing journal maximum taper 0.0002 in (.004 mm)
Main bearing journal maximum out-of-round 0.0002 in (.006 mm)
Main bearing journal-to-main bearing clearance 0.0010–0.0018 in (.025–.045 mm)
Connecting rod journal diameter 2.086–2.087 in (52.983–53.003 mm)
Connecting rod journal maximum taper 0.0002 in (.004 mm)
Connecting rod journal maximum out-of-round 0.0002 in (.006 mm)
Crankshaft maximum end play 0.0110 in (.28 mm)




Piston and Connecting Rod



Item Specification
Piston diameter - single grade 3.6284–3.6289 in (92.161–92.175 mm)
Piston-to-cylinder bore clearance (at grade size)b 0.0010–0.0023 in (.025–.059 mm)
Piston ring end gap - top 0.0079–0.0118 in (.2–.3 mm)
Piston ring end gap - intermediate 0.0197–0.0315 in (.5–.8 mm)
Piston ring end gap — oil control 0.0059–0.0177 in (.15–.45 mm)
Piston ring groove width - top 0.0480–0.0492 in (1.22–1.25 mm)
Piston ring groove width - intermediate 0.0480–0.0488 in (1.22–1.24 mm)
Piston ring groove width— oil control 0.0799–0.0807 in (2.03–2.05 mm)
Piston ring width - top 0.0461–0.0469 in (1.17–1.19 mm)
Piston ring width - intermediate 0.0461–0.0469 in (1.17–1.19 mm)
Piston ring-to-groove clearance - top 0.0012–0.0031 in (.03–.08 mm)
Piston ring-to-groove clearance - intermediate 0.0012–0.0028 in (.03–.07 mm)
Piston pin bore diameter 0.8663–0.8665 in (22.004–22.01 mm)
Piston pin diameter 0.8660–0.8661 in (21.997–22 mm)
Piston pin length 2.390–2.402 in (60.7–61 mm)
Piston pin-to-piston fit (clearance) 0.0002–0.0005 in (.004–.013 mm)
Connecting rod-to-pin clearance 0.0001–0.0007 in (.003–.018 mm)
Connecting rod pin bore diameter 0.8663–0.8667 in (22.003–22.015 mm)
Connecting rod length (center-to-center) 5.93 in (150.7 mm)
Connecting rod maximum allowed bend 0.0015 in (.038 mm)
Connecting rod maximum allowed twist 0.0020 in (.05 mm)
Connecting rod bearing-to-crankshaft clearance 0.0011–0.0027 in (.028–.069 mm)
Connecting rod side clearance (as assembled to crank) — standard play 0.0128 in (.325 mm)
Connecting rod side clearance (as assembled to crank) — max. play 0.0197 in (.5 mm)

• Time required for the plunger to leak down 1.6 mm of travel with 222 N force and leakdown fluid in the lash adjuster
• Before Grafal coating.

Yes, I checked. The tech told me that standing connecting rod side clearance was .325mm and max was .5mm. He said two of mine were over .8mm and all is the rest were between .5mm and .6mm

 

[RaceHorseV8]

Probably just like the video in the link below. That is what got me thinking about how to try and verify excessive rod/crank end play clearance by tilting front end of the car up to see if it makes any difference in the ticking noise. Might have to really tilt it up high, like going up a super steep driveway or ramps twice as tall as normal ramps. Thanks for the input.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/how-excessive-is-this-rod.108361/

Ever since I heard this vid a couple of months ago I was in the rod side-play camp as the cause of most of the tick issues for two reasons. 1) The sound itself is so close to what is heard through the new oil pan under the car and 2) The intermittent nature of the ticking. The rod going from side to side wouldn't necessarily be happening on every stroke. People here are looking for evidence and this appears to be some actual out-of-spec measurements to support this theory.

 

[GT Pony]

Yes, I checked. The tech told me that standing connecting rod side clearance was .325mm and max was .5mm. He said two of mine were over .8mm and all is the rest were between .5mm and .6mm

To add info ... here's a visual for those who don't fully understand rod side clearance specs. Feeler gauge is inserted where the red arrow is pointing to measure the total gap between the rod ends.

 

[Superchomper2003]

I went by the dealer to get a few photos and video. On the plus side my tech really knows his stuff and is very careful and organized.

 

[GT Pony]

Yes, I checked. The tech told me that standing connecting rod side clearance was .325mm and max was .5mm. He said two of mine were over .8mm and all is the rest were between .5mm and .6mm

Did your Tech also check the crankshaft end play clearance and compare it to the service manual specs?

 

[GT Pony]

I went by the dealer to get a few photos and video. On the plus side my tech really knows his stuff and is very careful and organized.

That photo makes me cringe ... but it sounds like you have a good meticulous mechanic working on your car.

It would be very interesting if you could get the mechanic to also check all the rod side clearances and the crankshaft end play clearance on the new short block. That's something I'd make sure the shop did so I didn't get another engine with out of spec clearances.

I guess Ford doesn't make any simple clearance checks like these and just slaps engines together hoping they are within specs ... crazy way to build engines IMO.

Sponsored