Lowering IATs

[Joshinator99]

Oh I agree, that was kind of my point though. I guess lower E percentage was more what I was thinking, but as I said he shouldn't notice that much power loss.

Well on an NA engine, your air density definitely suffers in high heat weather. So even though E solves a lot of problems in terms of spark advance and cylinder cooling, if he’s got less oxygen to start with, then he’s making less power, even on E.

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[SheepDog]

Well on an NA engine, your air density definitely suffers in high heat weather. So even though E solves a lot of problems in terms of spark advance and cylinder cooling, if he’s got less oxygen to start with, then he’s making less power, even on E.

Good thing Ethanol is highly oxygenated and contains oxygen atoms. E85 is somewhere around 30% oxygen, whereas oxygenated Gasoline (by using 10% ethanol) is less than 4%

 

[SnowFox]

You guys are making too much sense dammit. Guess I should leave well enough alone and wait for cooler temps.

this kind of thinking never leads to innovation. Try random ideas and report back

 

[WildHorse]

Well not everyone has access to pump E85. Hence the need...

 

[SheepDog]

The correct answer to lowering IAT's significantly, is water/meth injection. Cold air intakes, grill modifications, foil wraps on your intake etc. aren't going to make any noticeable difference. Unless you can figure out how to run the low side portion of your AC into the intake tract like a Dodge demon does, chemical cooling is the way.

 

[WildHorse]

foil wraps on your intake etc. aren't going to make any noticeable difference.

Right.. but for me it's a matter of the rate of cooling.
Whatever gets me closer to ambient faster when moving.
100F vs a slightly cooler 85F from the start.
Cooler air, no matter how slight, packs more air/fuel mix.
Us N/A guys need to take every advantage we can.

 

[SheepDog]

Right.. but for me it's a matter of the rate of cooling.
Whatever gets me closer to ambient faster when moving.
100F vs a slightly cooler 85F from the start.
Cooler air, no matter how slight, packs more air/fuel mix.
Us N/A guys need to take every advantage we can.

So that 15 degree difference is good for, 4-5HP? (Im not really sure) General rule of thumb is 1% per 10 degrees F.

You don't even need to use methanol to achieve dramatic results with an injection system to lower IAT's, well below ambient. Just water injection with a tiny nozzle, that allows for complete atomization before it enters the combustion chamber, can drop IAT's 10-20 degrees below ambient.

As long you have an intake that is already plumbed down into the fender well, so it isn't sucking in engine bay heat, that's as good as it will get with mechanical cooling.

 

[WildHorse]

As long you have an intake that is already plumbed down into the fender well, so it isn't sucking in engine bay heat, that's as good as it will get with mechanical cooling.

Well, to each there own. I think there's one or more 10ths to be found.

 

[Joshinator99]

Good thing Ethanol is highly oxygenated and contains oxygen atoms. E85 is somewhere around 30% oxygen, whereas oxygenated Gasoline (by using 10% ethanol) is less than 4%

But, he’s used to running E85 with low IATs too, which means his car will make a certain amount of power. If the IAT is higher, it’ll be less power, depending on that IATwe’re talking about…yes he’s still running E85 but there’s no question that there’s less oxygen in the mix. The MAF will reflect that in its reading too.

 

[Cobra Jet]

The correct answer to lowering IAT's significantly, is water/meth injection. Cold air intakes, grill modifications, foil wraps on your intake etc. aren't going to make any noticeable difference. Unless you can figure out how to run the low side portion of your AC into the intake tract like a Dodge demon does, chemical cooling is the way.

Any images of the Demon routing mentioned - because now curiosity is peaked…

 

[SheepDog]

Any images of the Demon routing mentioned - because now curiosity is peaked…

Technically, the Demon uses the AC to further cool the fluid in the heat exhanger for the supercharger, but I see no reason why a secondary Evaporator core couldn't be used in similar fashion to cool the intake air. If the car's intake was sucking air through the AC evaporator core, you would get similar results to the AC in the car I would think, and the motor would be ingesting 60ish degree air. The trick would be having something that is large enough to be able to cool the volume and speed of air coming in sufficiently, but not restrict the flow.

Or, imagine having an air to air intercooler, that also had the low side AC Evap coils routed through the inside of it.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-ca...2887/dodge-demon-air-conditioning-power-tech/

 

[robvas]

If the car's intake was sucking air through the AC evaporator core, you would get similar results to the AC in the car I would think, and the motor would be ingesting 60ish degree air. The trick would be having something that is large enough to be able to cool the volume and speed of air coming in sufficiently, but not restrict the flow.

Would basically never be able to work on an NA car. And especially not create a greater gain than the system would use to run itself

A 25,000 BTU window AC unit might flow 450cfm, you need almost double that to make 500hp

 

[SheepDog]

Would basically never be able to work on an NA car. And especially not create a greater gain than the system would use to run itself

A 25,000 BTU window AC unit might flow 450cfm, you need almost double that to make 500hp

Depends on the Intake air temp, and how much power it takes to drive the AC compressor. Dodge wouldn't have gone through all that trouble if it didn't produce a net gain in power.

If the IAT is 100 degrees F, and you can drop that down to 60 Degrees F, then a 40 degree drop in temp should produce about 4 % more horsespower, or 19 HP on a bone stock Gen 3 Coyote.

From what I can tell, the AC compressor takes somewhere around 7-10 HP to run.

Water/Meth injection is still the answer to this nonsense thread. High ambient temps, especially with high humidity are always going to produce high IAT's, even if the intake is on the roof of the car like an offroad truck snorkel.

 

[EFI]

Dodge wouldn't have gone through all that trouble if it didn't produce a net gain in power.

Whole different ballgame using AC refrigerants to directly cool a small bit of water in a closed loop system vs. air that is actually ingested by the engine.

 

[SheepDog]

Whole different ballgame using AC refrigerants to directly cool a small bit of water in a closed loop system vs. air that is actually ingested by the engine.

Yup.

People in here are brainstorming ways to lower IAT's on NA motors. This idea is certainly the most outlandish. Like I said before, if you want a very effective, affordable way to significantly lower IAT's then Water/meth injection is the answer. Dremeling out the grill, running the intake down into the fender, wrapping it in heat shield etc. won't make any noticeable difference in Florida on a hot day.

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