BBQ tick - another attempt to understand

[GT Pony]

At 100C is where most of the oil will spend it's time even at high RPM ...

Except for the oil inside the journal bearings due to it heating up as it's squeezed and sheared. The reason the HTHS test was invented is to rate oil at 150C which is the temperature oil can rise to in journal bearings. The HTHS parameter gives an indication of how robust the oil will be inside the bearings under use conditions. So as Dr. Dmitri Kopeliovich from SubTech mentioned, max MOTF (which is also related to HTHS viscosity) is the main goal to keep bearings safe as possible.

Roush is NOT Ford Performance. They may differ in their ways of doing things, level of testing and invovlment of Ford OE engineers and what they believe is necessary, have tested etc.

As pointed out earlier, Roush says 5W-50 is required at all times to maintain their engine warranty with their supercharger. And Roush collaborates with Ford Performance Racing, so if there was any real engineering reason not to use 5W-50 in a Coyote because it could do harm, then there would be no way Rouch say 5W-50 was required for their warranty to be in effect.

S197 track packs may call for 5W-50 to compensate for product cost limits. So 5W-50 is a compromise for the limits of a water to oil cooler under track use at the expense of greater cold start wear rates.

Didn't the S197 Track Pack cars have the water-to-oil cooler? So they were specifying 5W-50 on an engine that also had an oil cooler.

Come on guys...5 micro-inches (12.5 microns)...that's about 1/3 the width of a human hair (40 microns) and we're sitting here arguing about how 5W-30 is going to provide more protection over 5W-20...doh!

5 microns can make a difference. The MOFT isn't much, so 5 microns out of 20 or 25 to start with can make a difference.

Alright, I"m done. I"ve made my case. GT Pony his and Angry50 his meaningless and non-helpful rants against my posting too much. Now we can all just be friends. Peace .

I'm just adding technical info and giving my viewpoint ... not trying to argue.

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[accel]

Don't use it before the rings are seated. Otherwise you may prevent them from properly wearing it and you will see excessive oil consumption / blow by. Some one else asked LiquiMoly a while back and they said as long as the rings are seated your good to go. Other than that it can be used at any mileage. Same thing with TriboTEX and Archoil. Although TriboTEX provides the longest wear protection and works harmoniously with MoDTC and ZDDP. LiquiMoly says NOT to use MoS2 with their hBN based CeraTec. I've read studies where certain MoS2 formulas (yes there are more than one chemical composition) cause accelerated wear and increased friction with DLC coatings.

Just for a refresh:

CeraTec's and Achroil's EP properties are from Hexagonal Boron Nitride based DLC film.

TriboTEX EP properties are from a Synthetic Magnesium Silicate Hydroxide based DLC film and works well with organoMoly (MoDTC which forms MoS2) and ZDDP EP additives.

Not all Tribofilms are created equal

And ZDDP turns out to be tribofilm as well:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.o...ding-mysteries-anti-wear-motor-oil.amp?espv=1

As analysis techniques improved, researchers discovered that ZDDP breaks down and turns into a "tribofilm," a thin, solid layer that adheres to the surfaces in contact and further protects them from wear.

So I guess ot is a relatively inexpensive additive that is also not making oil look weird like ceratec.

 

[stangman638]

And turns out to be tribofilm as well:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.o...ding-mysteries-anti-wear-motor-oil.amp?espv=1



So I guess ot is a relatively inexpensive additive that is also not making oil look weird like ceratec.

I wouldnt use any ZDDP in newer cars, it clogs the catalytic converters.. the XL-17 from ford was pure carbon black.

 

[accel]

Don't use it before the rings are seated. Otherwise you may prevent them from properly wearing it and you will see excessive oil consumption / blow by. Some one else asked LiquiMoly a while back and they said as long as the rings are seated your good to go. Other than that it can be used at any mileage. Same thing with TriboTEX and Archoil. Although TriboTEX provides the longest wear protection and works harmoniously with MoDTC and ZDDP. LiquiMoly says NOT to use MoS2 with their hBN based CeraTec. I've read studies where certain MoS2 formulas (yes there are more than one chemical composition) cause accelerated wear and increased friction with DLC coatings.

Just for a refresh:

CeraTec's and Achroil's EP properties are from Hexagonal Boron Nitride based DLC film.

TriboTEX EP properties are from a Synthetic Magnesium Silicate Hydroxide based DLC film and works well with organoMoly (MoDTC which forms MoS2) and ZDDP EP additives.

Not all Tribofilms are created equal

I've heard rings are seated pretty fast. Like 100 miles or less.

 

[GT Pony]

Another happy Ceratec user.

 

[Condor1970]

Another happy Ceratec user.

Either Mike is a descendant of a Keystone Cop, or he's actually pretty talented at making videos with the clumsiness of a Jerry Louis comedy film.

 

[Zinc03svt]

OMG... How many dissertations can you all write? Lol. Lot of idle time for some of ya?

 

[Mountain376]

I wouldnt use any ZDDP in newer cars, it clogs the catalytic converters.. the XL-17 from ford was pure carbon black.

How does oil get to the converters? Leak past rings (a small portion) and induction in crankcase vapor (a larger portion).

 

[ponyv6]

I got my 18 replaced with a 19. I have 40miles now and sounds good so far. My 18 developed the tick at 1200miles after the first oil change.
Now having a second chance, I am thinking what I can do differently to not have the ticking.
1. Should I add some ceratec moly to the oil right away?
2. Instead of doing early oil change should I wait till 5000miles? I did my first oil change in the 18 at 1200miles based on when it was build to not use the oil more than 6 months even if was just sitting.
3. I did my first pull after the first 1000miles. Is the break in period a myth? should I have waited more?
4. since we are in winter now, I am not thinking about going 5w30. Probably my first oil change is gonna be just before the summer, should I do the first oil change with 5w30?

 

[Condor1970]

I got my 18 replaced with a 19. I have 40miles now and sounds good so far. My 18 developed the tick at 1200miles after the first oil change.
Now having a second chance, I am thinking what I can do differently to not have the ticking.
1. Should I add some ceratec moly to the oil right away?
2. Instead of doing early oil change should I wait till 5000miles? I did my first oil change in the 18 at 1200miles based on when it was build to not use the oil more than 6 months even if was just sitting.
3. I did my first pull after the first 1000miles. Is the break in period a myth? should I have waited more?
4. since we are in winter now, I am not thinking about going 5w30. Probably my first oil change is gonna be just before the summer, should I do the first oil change with 5w30?

1. No. Wait a couple hundred miles at least. It usually takes about only 100 miles for rings to properly seat with these new engines. You could wait to 1,000, but my tick developed at 800 miles with original oil.
2. Unless you want to change viscosity to 5e30, just add Ceratec at about 200 miles with OEM oil, and keep it in there until 5,000. Or if I had to do it again, I would go full synthetic 5w30 and add Ceratec at 200 miles. That's what I would do.
3. No, a pull at 1,000 miles is not a problem. Engine really is broken in enough by then.
4. The cold startup viscosity of 5w30 full synthetic in winter is the same as 5w20. It's when the engine gets hot is when it gets different. 5w30 stays a little thicker at high temp.

 

[accel]

I got my 18 replaced with a 19. I have 40miles now and sounds good so far. My 18 developed the tick at 1200miles after the first oil change.
Now having a second chance, I am thinking what I can do differently to not have the ticking.
1. Should I add some ceratec moly to the oil right away?
2. Instead of doing early oil change should I wait till 5000miles? I did my first oil change in the 18 at 1200miles based on when it was build to not use the oil more than 6 months even if was just sitting.
3. I did my first pull after the first 1000miles. Is the break in period a myth? should I have waited more?
4. since we are in winter now, I am not thinking about going 5w30. Probably my first oil change is gonna be just before the summer, should I do the first oil change with 5w30?

if I got another chance, and, based on liqui moly tech spec that states the additive is good for engine breakin, I'd add some after at 200-300 miles.

The question is how much. I feel like the whole bottle for preventative purposes might be too much.

 

[ponyv6]

if I got another chance, and, based on liqui moly tech spec that states the additive is good for engine breakin, I'd add some after at 200-300 miles.

The question is how much. I feel like the whole bottle for preventative purposes might be too much.

I was thinking the same. depending on the oil level adding half bottle.

 

[Condor1970]

I was thinking the same. depending on the oil level adding half bottle.

After 3,400 miles, mine had a noticeable tick all the time, so I added 1/2 bottle, and it got rid of it 95% of the tick. Only a little warmup tick really remained, along with a slight single tick on the way up when revving. I just added the other 1/2 bottle the other day, and all ticking is now gone. So for me 1 full bottle hides the noise of an existing tick, but I agree that if you have no tick in a new engine, and want it for preventative maintenance, 1/2 bottle should be more than enough.

 

[ryant601]

Another vote for Ceratec. I've had the tick since my first oil change and every one since. 50k miles

I got around to buying Ceratec this past oil change, dumped 2/3 of a bottle in and the car has never sounded so smooth.

 

[Schwerin]

Have any 2019's had this yet? I seem to be mostly seeing 18 and older.

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