Vibration between 50 & 70 mph

Discussion in 'Issues, Repairs, Warranty, TSB, Recalls' started by icarumba, Jan 21, 2015.

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Do you experience vibration and rumbling between 50 and 70 mph?

  1. No

    53.8%
  2. Yes - V8/MT

    20.1%
  3. Yes - V8/AT

    12.7%
  4. Yes - V6/MT

    1.1%
  5. Yes - V6/AT

    3.6%
  6. Yes - EB/MT

    2.4%
  7. Yes - EB/AT

    6.3%
  1. Gurjit

    Gurjit Well-Known Member

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    I agree, they replaced mine and it made it worse.
     
  2. kh1818

    kh1818 Well-Known Member

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    I wish you were wrong, but today they replaced the driveshaft, and lo and behold I get a call from them at 5pm saying that the vibration is still persistent. They reached out to Ford Engineering for assistance, waiting on an email back and I should be getting an update tomorrow morning. I have now officially driven my loaner c-max (yuck) longer than my new mustang. This is not looking good, but I will continue to be slightly optimistic that they will figure it out.

    Should I be reaching out to anyone at this point (Ford, dealer management, etc) in case this turns into a buy back situation? I am reading up on lemon laws just preemptively. What were the next steps for you all once the driveshaft replacement didn't fix? This sucks.:headbonk:
     
  3. GTP

    GTP Deutsche Pony

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    One of the posts in this thread-that-never-ends outlines the specific procedure they are to follow. Page 118 is a good place to start.

    Did they balance the new DS after putting it on? Keep in mind that the whole system has to be balanced. In theory, if the DS is balanced by itself, and same for the diff, and same for the trans, then 0+0+0=0, but that's a perfect world.

    The same all applies to run-out. Maybe the S650 with have a transaxle. :D Spin the DS at 7000, and thus move the vibration up 100x in frequency.

    Some guys go DIY with hose clamp(s), but that is a different ordeal, and has safety implications. Not for the faint of heart.
     
  4. kh1818

    kh1818 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks - yea I have read every page of this thread actually haha. I would hope that the dealer would know that it needs to be balanced upon install... Shouldn't need my input for that one. I do not want to go the hose clamp route - I'm gonna keep after the dealer/Ford to make it right. Either way sounds like Ford representatives will be talking to the dealer tomorrow, will be interesting to hear what they have to say.
     
  5. ABS550

    ABS550 Well-Known Member

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    Balance

    There are several different positions the the DS can be bolted to the pinion flange. It is possible that either the old DS or the new DS would be fine if they were "clocked" properly. Some have found resolution simply by doing this. I spoke to a guy in the local Mustang club here who had a DS installed and he said it vibrated. Then they rotated it a position or two on the flange and it was smooth. The hose clamps worked for me, but that may have simply balanced out a DS-pinion flange issue.
    As recently stated, the whole assembly has to be in balance.

    Imagine if a tire and wheel were balanced and then the tire was removed and reinstalled. If the tire wasn't reinstalled in exactly the same spot, then the whole assembly would be out of balance. Same idea applies to the DS assembly.
     
  6. lugz

    lugz Well-Known Member

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    Had an interesting email conversation with an engineer at Dynotech this week. He says the yellow paint splot typically marks the heavy part of a rotation, and suggested putting the yellow spot of the pinion yoke 180 degrees from the yellow spot of the driveshaft, so the heavy parts would cancel. What was odd, at least for my stock driveshaft, the yellow spot of the DS was probably 15-20 degrees off from the yellow spot on the pinion. Now, was the factory fine tuning the assembly, or did someone just slap it in that way? Not sure, but I do know the factory assembly was silky smooth. 20170502_173309.jpeg DSCN2167.JPG
     
  7. ABS550

    ABS550 Well-Known Member

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    Mine looks very similar. Picture back on post 1773.
    www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1431200&postcount=1773

    You can see that they tried to line up the yellow dots to the nearest bolt hole. Mine were off a similar 15 or 20 degrees.
    It makes sense that they would mark them and try to line them up. BUT, it would make the most sense if they marked the LIGHT side of one and the HEAVY side of the other one, then try to put the dots close together. (line up the dots)

    If they mark the HEAVY side on both, then the dots would need to be on opposite sides which is visually, less practical. (more difficult to do correctly)

    Maybe the dots are marked incorrectly on some parts? Maybe some have the dots marked on the light side, when it should have been put on the heavy side etc.

    Also if you look at my picture and where I had to add the weight, it was exactly in line with the dot on the pinion side. So maybe when the lined up the dots, they did it to the nearest bolt, but that was not good enough to balance it. If that is the case, then moving to the next bolt hole wouldn't work anyway. As mentioned in an earlier post, it may be possible to place a washer under a bolt, as a counterweight instead of using hose clamps.

    If would be great if someone from Ford would chime in to shed some light on the factory assembly and balancing procedure etc.
     
  8. lugz

    lugz Well-Known Member

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    #2618 lugz, May 4, 2017
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
    That's exactly what I was thinking. Short of taking a dynamic measurement of the DS and the pinion, it's anyone's guess which is heavy and which is light, etc. Unless, of course as you suggested, someone from Ford were to chime in here.

    I like that idea, but doubt a washer would be enough.

    Anyway, I'm going to swap out the shaftmasters for the dynotech and go under the assumption that the mark on the factory shaft is the heavy mark, so that's the way I'm going to install the dynotech - yellow to yellow. The shaftmasters shaft really doesn't have a similar splat on it. (There is one, but it looks more for assembly of the slip tube to the main part of the shaft.)

    Edit - after looking at the pinion yoke some more, it's kind of obvious what the factory did here - note the balancing holes drilled into the pinion? It's gotta be to counter the heavy side of the DS. Splat to Splat. Look how much more weight they had to take out of your yoke than mine. I'm guessing they've tightened up the tolerance on the DS weight imbalance. And since the DS splat doesn't line up precisely with the yoke splat, that tells me they pre-drill the yoke for a certain amount of imbalance, then line up the DS as close as possible to that spot. If the DS is out of tolerance with the amt of mass taken out of the yoke (either a lot more or a lot less), then your new stang is going to be more like a vibe rider they sell for harleys. The only perfect solution Ford could do would be to remove the *exact* amount of mass at the *exact* right spot of every yoke mated to every DS, and they aren't going to do that on a mass-produced car.
     
  9. lugz

    lugz Well-Known Member

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    A couple more shaps of the factory shaft. Note the balance weights marked in green pencil. .11 at the tail nearest pinion. .13 at the carrier bearing and .02 at the guibo. Dunno why I assumed they were runout numbers, but bet they are balance weights.

    I'd be dang curious to see the pinion balance holes/splat on the guys with problems compared to what their DS weights are. 20170504_124807.jpeg 20170504_124825.jpeg
     
  10. ABS550

    ABS550 Well-Known Member

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  11. kh1818

    kh1818 Well-Known Member

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    Another update - I have the car back, dealer has ordered an entire rear assembly from Ford, will arrive in a few weeks. They also test drove some of their own new inventory to benchmark the vibration against my car and discovered that their new ones have the issue, but worse than mine! They also put it up on a lift and noted that the vibration is definitely related to the driveshaft system. They seem willing to do whatever it takes to get to the bottom of it, fingers crossed the new assembly will fix. I'll update in a few weeks :)
     
  12. BOBS550

    BOBS550 Well-Known Member

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    My daughter had her`s replaced and that did the job no more vibration:hail:Good Luck Tiffs irs.jpg
     
  13. Dominant1

    Dominant1 Well-Known Member

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    Not to put a cloud on your relief, but what surprises me is many folks in this thread thought they had the vibration fixed and it returns later. I say this because mine is back but not nearly as harsh as before... im gonna go the shim route. guys that have done this never had it return!
     
  14. offroadkarter

    offroadkarter Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, people who have had the dealer "fix" it, put a few hundred miles on it and come update us later. I made this mistake and thought it was fixed for about 100 miles.
     
  15. Cobra Jet

    Cobra Jet Well-Known Member

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    Jumping back in... For those who have read my very detailed posts in this thread, my driveline vibe has been documented throughly (and as others have experienced, fixed too....only to come back time and time again).

    So, here I am again - car was brought back to service last week with just 23,xxx miles on it due to a humming noise and the dreaded driveline vibe.

    This will now be, if I remember, the 5th time it's been in the shop since I bought it new in Dec 2015 for the SAME issue as experienced by many.

    I don't have my current paperwork handy, but the Tech performing the work (same Tech who did the last corrective fix for same issue last November) is SUPER thorough. The Service Center was in touch w/Ford Engineering Team again. They used the listening equipment again. They drove the car distance, everyone has confirmed its a driveline issue and it's been documented that the vibe is directly related to the driveline and has now this time been narrowed down to the rear differential.

    The Tech pulled the diff drain plug and noted there are metal particles mixed in with the gear fluid (not good). Also noted that the listening equipment attached to the car this time around recorded excessive hz (I'll update thread tomorrow with the work order info).

    The entire rear diff is going to be replaced under warranty Per the Service Center, the new diff is being built at Ford and will be shipped to the Service Center in about 2 weeks, at which time they will call me so I can bring the car back for repair.

    ----

    I suspect my rear diff has been the potential issue since my initial complaint at 1,900 miles and should have been replaced at that time. My guess is that at every interval of a supposed potential fix, the rear gears were wearing into different wear patterns. This may explain why each time the vibe felt like it was fixed - but then resurfaced X,xxx miles later was because after so many miles, the gears wore differently, and the corrective actions have only been "temp" fixes until the diff gears are just totally shot...

    There's no reason there should be metal particles in the sealed diff, not at 23k miles.

    To those wondering, yes, this is also the first time anyone unplugged the rear diff to check the fluid. Not sure why it was never looked into before though...

    Not only is there a hum, a driveline vibe, but also excessive clunking when coming to a stop - as if there is too much slop in the rear diff allowing the driveshaft to clunk as the driveline is winding down when coming to a stop.

    The driveline vibe starts at around 48mph and gets excessively worse at 50-55 (bad vibe felt in floor pan, gas pedal, door panels, front seat backs, trans tunnel, steering wheel, etc), remains at 60-65 but this time around does not taper off after 65+ Like it did in the past.

    We'll see what happens after the rear is replaced.
     
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