The big Intercooler thread.

[Glenn G]

My MAP Street IC install took 15 mins on a lift.

Took me quite a bit longer, so I'm jealous of your skill, but yes I did it without removing the front bumper too.

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[gtmorgan23]

Took me quite a bit longer, so I'm jealous of your skill, but yes I did it without removing the front bumper too.

would you mind giving some feedback on your MAP street intercooler?

The wife wants car parts for her birthday and Im trying to figure out what all to get her.

Green Filter is a for sure.

She wants some interior stuff so mods depend on how much all that stuff runs.

 

[Weather Man]

I posted this in the CP-E thread, but figured it belonged here also.

The main reason I installed this intercooler and UPR catch can is mainly for long term reliability of the car. The car does not have a tune and will not for the foreseeable future. My serious mod money goes into my 08. I will say that Danny at DB Performance was itching for me to let him loose on the car, LOL.

Filled the car with non-oxy 91 octane (what was available).

Bone stock, did 4 pulls in 5th and 1 final pull in 3rd. Stock tune hits the 120 mph limiter around 5,700 rpm. Danny did the 1 pull in 3rd stock and modded to extend the rpm out to see what would happen.

Installed the CPe intercooler and UPR catch can and repeated to see how the intercooler would perform. There is no tune on the car. I copied 4 of the runs into a spreadsheet to make looking at the results a little easier.

Well worth the money I think. This was on a dynojet dyno with the heavy roller option.

Didn't monitor iat on the dyno. Did do a nice pull on the way home and guage iat was 1 degree over ambient with no bump in gauge iat on the slow down, impressive.

 

[shelbywannabe]

I posted this in the CP-E thread, but figured it belonged here also.

The main reason I installed this intercooler and UPR catch can is mainly for long term reliability of the car. The car does not have a tune and will not for the foreseeable future. My serious mod money goes into my 08. I will say that Danny at DB Performance was itching for me to let him loose on the car, LOL.

Filled the car with non-oxy 91 octane (what was available).

Bone stock, did 4 pulls in 5th and 1 final pull in 3rd. Stock tune hits the 120 mph limiter around 5,700 rpm. Danny did the 1 pull in 3rd stock and modded to extend the rpm out to see what would happen.

Installed the CPe intercooler and UPR catch can and repeated to see how the intercooler would perform. There is no tune on the car. I copied 4 of the runs into a spreadsheet to make looking at the results a little easier.

Well worth the money I think. This was on a dynojet dyno with the heavy roller option.

Didn't monitor iat on the dyno. Did do a nice pull on the way home and guage iat was 1 degree over ambient with no bump in gauge iat on the slow down, impressive.

Impressive. I just added a Levels IC on a stock tune also. I already had a catch can and am not looking to tune any time soon. Everyone says how bad the stock IC was and I also liked the look of the aftermarket IC so I figured it was a win win situation but seeing your numbers really confirms that I made a good decision. Thank you very much for posting your findings. Greatly appreciated !

 

[Glenn G]

would you mind giving some feedback on your MAP street intercooler?

The wife wants car parts for her birthday and Im trying to figure out what all to get her.

Green Filter is a for sure.

She wants some interior stuff so mods depend on how much all that stuff runs.

The MAP Street works wonderfully for a street driven car, it heatsoaks slow and recovers quickly, It also flows so well that will notice a power bump even without a tune.

I have just gotten done with a datalog for a 3rd gear pull with it and the results are good. Very pleased with it. MAP is sending me a race core to test on the Autobahn so my black powder coated Street may be for sale soon at a reduced price but street testing will show if the race IC makes too many compromises for size and I prefer the stock look of the street so may keep it and sell the race.

 

[TheLion]

The MAP Street works wonderfully for a street driven car, it heatsoaks slow and recovers quickly, It also flows so well that will notice a power bump even without a tune.

I have just gotten done with a datalog for a 3rd gear pull with it and the results are good. Very pleased with it. MAP is sending me a race core to test on the Autobahn so my black powder coated Street may be for sale soon at a reduced price but street testing will show if the race IC makes too many compromises for size and I prefer the stock look of the street so may keep it and sell the race.

Glenn, the image above was from neodark back on the "Levels Performance Intercooler Data" thread if you recall a while back. We were all wondering how the Levels Street would compare to the smaller Stage 1 units like the MAP Street core. I think we have some interesting data that falls in line with what I would expect given the significant cooling area advantage of the Levels.

From a design standpoint the Levels is NOT a true stage 1, it's a race type even though it's at a Stage 1 price point, so I'm not suggesting the stage 1 units are bad quality, clearly they perform very well and that is what I would expect a factory IC to perform like. The Levels Street is an odd-ball because it's priced at Stage 1 price point but utilities a full sized core design you would expect to see in higher tier units like Full Race, Wagner, MAP Race or other similar IC's.

Your ambient was also very ideal at about 65F according to the graph, with your charge temps rising slowly throughout and ending at about 90F. You also mentioned it tends to change temp about 2x as slowly as what we are seeing from the Levels, meaning it's holding its thermal energy and shedding it a slower rate.

According to the data from neodark above, it appears the Levels bottom at almost exactly 80F with only a slight rise and then flattened out at about about 85F during the last 1k rpm. Now neodark lives in Florida according to his sig and it's July when he posted, I think it's reasonable to assume an ambient of around 85~90F, much higher, yet ended with a lower temp. Again, we would expect this behavior because the Levels Street core has 980 in^3 volume while the MAP Stage 1 unit has about 600 in^3. That's a significant difference and I would expect the performance to reflect that and we now know it does.

I think this can at least shed some light on the questions we were asking on weather it was worth going with the Levels Street core over the other Stage 1 price point IC's like CP-e, MAP, Injen etc.

For a stock car, the stage 1 units are still plenty adequate, your no where near 150F limit and well within the "ideal" charge temp range. So I don't think there's a benefit to upgrading your Stage 1 unless you intend to use it on the track or significantly mod the car, in which case the stage 1 units will start to show their limits.

However, for those sitting on the fence, who have not yet purchased a stage 1 unit, I see no reason to go with the smaller units given the prices are the same unless keeping the active grill shudders and the stock look are high on the priority list (which for some it is).

 

[gtmorgan23]

"However, for those sitting on the fence, who have not yet purchased a stage 1 unit, I see no reason to go with the smaller units given the prices are the same unless keeping the active grill shudders and the stock look are high on the priority list (which for some it is)."

That is really the only reason I am leaning towards the MAP street.

@Glenn_G so powdercoating and/or painting the intercooler does not affect performance?

 

[gtmorgan23]

.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

The wife wants car parts for her birthday

you're a lucky man, I wanna wife like that when I get married

 

[gtmorgan23]

you're a lucky man, I wanna wife like that when I get married

I agree with you completely.

I have a 1990 SSP coupe and she has a 2016 Ecoboost.

 

[TheLion]

"However, for those sitting on the fence, who have not yet purchased a stage 1 unit, I see no reason to go with the smaller units given the prices are the same unless keeping the active grill shudders and the stock look are high on the priority list (which for some it is)."

That is really the only reason I am leaning towards the MAP street.

@Glenn_G so powder coating and/or painting the inter cooler does not affect performance?

Paint absolutely affects thermal transfer. It's physical matter which is now in between the ambient air and the heated aluminum. If you were to paint it using Acrylic based paint for example, you efficiency would drastically drop as Acrylic is a poor thermal conductor. However, if you were to use a thermally conductive ceramic paint, the story would be different.

So if your going to paint the inter cooler, be sure to use a thermally conductive paint specifically designed for thermal applications, otherwise you will regret it in short order.

Physical contact is the method of transfer between the ambient air and the aluminum fins, insulators have a poor transfer of energy which counteracts the very purpose of the heat exchanger.

 

[Glenn G]

Glenn, the image above was from neodark back on the "Levels Performance Intercooler Data" thread if you recall a while back. We were all wondering how the Levels Street would compare to the smaller Stage 1 units like the MAP Street core. I think we have some interesting data that falls in line with what I would expect given the significant cooling area advantage of the Levels.


Your ambient was also very ideal at about 65F according to the graph, with your charge temps rising slowly throughout and ending at about 90F. You also mentioned it tends to change temp about 2x as slowly as what we are seeing from the Levels, meaning it's holding its thermal energy and shedding it a slower rate.

According to the data from neodark above, it appears the Levels bottom at almost exactly 80F with only a slight rise and then flattened out at about about 85F during the last 1k rpm. Now neodark lives in Florida according to his sig and it's July when he posted, I think it's reasonable to assume an ambient of around 85~90F, much higher, yet ended with a lower temp. Again, we would expect this behavior because the Levels Street core has 980 in^3 volume while the MAP Stage 1 unit has about 600 in^3. That's a significant difference and I would expect the performance to reflect that and we now know it does.

I think this can at least shed some light on the questions we were asking on weather it was worth going with the Levels Street core over the other Stage 1 price point IC's like CP-e, MAP, Injen etc.

For a stock car, the stage 1 units are still plenty adequate, your no where near 150F limit and well within the "ideal" charge temp range. So I don't think there's a benefit to upgrading your Stage 1 unless you intend to use it on the track or significantly mod the car, in which case the stage 1 units will start to show their limits.

However, for those sitting on the fence, who have not yet purchased a stage 1 unit, I see no reason to go with the smaller units given the prices are the same unless keeping the active grill shudders and the stock look are high on the priority list (which for some it is).

We will need to know the ambient temp on his run but I generally agree with your assessment, If you plan to stay on the stock block, the MAP street is all you will ever need and can pass for stock which is of great value in CA emissions states or in Europe. When my MAP Race gets here I will test both on the same day. I may be buying a Vargas Stage 2 so watch this space!

"However, for those sitting on the fence, who have not yet purchased a stage 1 unit, I see no reason to go with the smaller units given the prices are the same unless keeping the active grill shudders and the stock look are high on the priority list (which for some it is)."

That is really the only reason I am leaning towards the MAP street.

@Glenn_G so powdercoating and/or painting the intercooler does not affect performance?

Paint absolutely affects thermal transfer. It's physical matter which is now in between the ambient air and the heated aluminum. If you were to paint it using Acrylic based paint for example, you efficiency would drastically drop as Acrylic is a poor thermal conductor. However, if you were to use a thermally conductive ceramic paint, the story would be different.

So if your going to paint the inter cooler, be sure to use a thermally conductive paint specifically designed for thermal applications, otherwise you will regret it in short order.

Physical contact is the method of transfer between the ambient air and the aluminum fins, insulators have a poor transfer of energy which counteracts the very purpose of the heat exchanger.

MAP powder-coated my IC black. I have personally tested several powdercoated items when I was in school and the right Material actually improved thermal exchange of metals. The good people at MAP are not dumb and I'm positive they would have used the correct stuff.

It's a two edged sword as it will soak up more heat in traffic but will shed it much faster when moving. My personal experience with thermally conductive powdercoats has shown me that it is worth the trade off on an intercooler.

 

[Juben]

That graph The Lion posted was actually mine, not neodark's. The ambient temp was around 77°, IIRC.

Edit:
Here's a link to that specific post. It was 77°.

 

[TheLion]

That graph The Lion posted was actually mine, not neodark's. The ambient temp was around 77°, IIRC.

Edit:
Here's a link to that specific post. It was 77°.

That's pretty good then, right in line with what Nick Levels reported his customers seeing. 85F-77F = 8F temp rise over ambient, not bad at all. I don't think you could get better than that unless your using injection or ice boxes...

 

[TripleYellowMellow959]

I've been looking at the levels FMIC and I noticed it covers a good portion of the radiator. Has anyone experienced warmer engine temps due to the restricted and warmer airflow to the radiator. I assume the air is warmer after flowing through the intercooler and would be restricted by having to flow through the intercooler fins.

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