Ecoboost Big Turbo Thread

[5TAR5CR3AM]

I'm sure with ATP's drop in turbos it will work with all stock locations and lines.

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[5TAR5CR3AM]

IDK if I would be quite so cavalier if it were my personal vehicle lol.


But I would feel much better using M1 over E85 for a long term solution to the EcoBoost fueling problem.

Wellllll lol. If you run out of meth, honestly should just stay out of boost or have a safer map you can switch too until you get more. :first:

I'm not a fan of E85 mixes because it puts higher stress levels on fueling components and in high enough concentrations can create a sticky substance commonly referred to as "black death" which isn't good for fp, inj, etc..

I think a nice sized tank in the trunk with a progressive controller and a way to monitor will be good Anymore fueling needed will require a 5th/6th port injection setup.

 

[Dirtleg]

Subscribed. In for the discussion.

OP, I couldn't help but notice, since in a previous life I did a fair amount of reading compressor/turbine maps, that the Garrett 3582 (awesome turbo btw) might be a little on the big side. Sure it will make a lot of power up top but I'd be concerned about low rpm boost and turbo lag on a 2.3l. Perhaps a good tuner(the person not the device) could manipulate the cam/valve timing and minimize or negate the ill effects. This is an unknown to me.:shrug:

A little smaller turbo such as the Garrett 3076 (still capable of 600+ HP) might make a better all around driver. Just my opinion of course. I would need to do a flow analysis on the EB motor to get an accurate idea. I have no idea with the flow rate of this motor is at any given RPM/cam timing settings.

And whenever possible stick to a water cooled turbo housing. Just keeps temperatures from spiking in the bearings when running hard for an extended period of time.

So yeah that's all I got for now. Carry on.

And Livernois, it's nice to have your participation here. I'd imagine you already know the answers to many of the educated guesses that will arise in the attempt at finding the best overall turbo size for this motor.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

I was told that the advantages of e85 wasn't the added power from higher octane so much as the predictability of how it burns. Making it safer to run higher boost and afrs. If that is true wouldn't it be safer in the long run on a modified motor assuming the fuel components are safe for it?

But the availability and quality of the E85 that you get depends GREATLY upon the region of the country that you live in.

For instance, I used to live in:
California and Texas...E85 EVERYWHERE!
New York SUPER HARD
New Jersey HARD
Michigan E85 is scattered depending upon where in the state that you are.

VP M1 you can order in all 50!

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Wellllll lol. If you run out of meth, honestly should just stay out of boost or have a safer map you can switch too until you get more. :first:

I'm not a fan of E85 mixes because it puts higher stress levels on fueling components and in high enough concentrations can create a sticky substance commonly referred to as "black death" which isn't good for fp, inj, etc..

I think a nice sized tank in the trunk with a progressive controller and a way to monitor will be good Anymore fueling needed will require a 5th/6th port injection setup.

That's why we use a progressive system with built in fail safes. And the reason why we do not do water/methanol kits is because EVERY time that we have used them the internal components fail. The componentry of the 100% methanol kits that we use have NEVER produced a failure because of lackluster componentry.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Thank you for the compliment! And you're right, we are probably more familiar with the EcoBoost platform than anyone short of FoMoCo. We hold about 12 WR's and claims to firsts.

 

[wireless]

Subscribed. In for the discussion.

OP, I couldn't help but notice, since in a previous life I did a fair amount of reading compressor/turbine maps, that the Garrett 3582 (awesome turbo btw) might be a little on the big side. Sure it will make a lot of power up top but I'd be concerned about low rpm boost and turbo lag on a 2.3l. Perhaps a good tuner(the person not the device) could manipulate the cam/valve timing and minimize or negate the ill effects. This is an unknown to me.:shrug:

A little smaller turbo such as the Garrett 3076 (still capable of 600+ HP) might make a better all around driver. Just my opinion of course. I would need to do a flow analysis on the EB motor to get an accurate idea. I have no idea with the flow rate of this motor is at any given RPM/cam timing settings.

And whenever possible stick to a water cooled turbo housing. Just keeps temperatures from spiking in the bearings when running hard for an extended period of time.

So yeah that's all I got for now. Carry on.

And Livernois, it's nice to have your participation here. I'd imagine you already know the answers to many of the educated guesses that will arise in the attempt at finding the best overall turbo size for this motor.

I have to agree. I think that the turbo he's speaking of is a bit overzealous. I think a nice GTX3076 or similar would be perfect. I don't mind a bit of turbo lag, but I'd like to be in full boost by 3500rpm's or so.
I don't want a big turbo monster, I want something with a ton of mid range that carries on throughout the range.

Interested to see where water/meth goes with this platform. I'll likely use it purely for cooling purposes.

 

[5TAR5CR3AM]

Subscribed. In for the discussion.

OP, I couldn't help but notice, since in a previous life I did a fair amount of reading compressor/turbine maps, that the Garrett 3582 (awesome turbo btw) might be a little on the big side. Sure it will make a lot of power up top but I'd be concerned about low rpm boost and turbo lag on a 2.3l. Perhaps a good tuner(the person not the device) could manipulate the cam/valve timing and minimize or negate the ill effects. This is an unknown to me.:shrug:

A little smaller turbo such as the Garrett 3076 (still capable of 600+ HP) might make a better all around driver. Just my opinion of course. I would need to do a flow analysis on the EB motor to get an accurate idea. I have no idea with the flow rate of this motor is at any given RPM/cam timing settings.

I knew somebody would bring this up

I come from the Mazdaspeed platform. People over there have used both turbos I mentioned with great success on a 2.3 DI engine. The gtx3582 spools only a couple hundred rpm later than the 3076 but with alot more room up top. I've been in a 3582 powered car and a 3076 powered car... the difference was negligible. Sure the 3076 will get my 500whp but what if I ultimately decide I want more? I now have to spend more money on another turbo. ORRRR I could just get the 3576r and call it a day

There are so many options out there and my build is about 6-12 months out so who knows. Things could always change.

 

[5TAR5CR3AM]

That's why we use a progressive system with built in fail safes. And the reason why we do not do water/methanol kits is because EVERY time that we have used them the internal components fail. The componentry of the 100% methanol kits that we use have NEVER produced a failure because of lackluster componentry.

May I ask what brand meth kits you use or do you use your own design?

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

May I ask what brand meth kits you use or do you use your own design?

We prefer using the Alky kits, because no matter the application or the level of power that we demand, there have been no failures due to less than optimally engineered internals. Whereas, with almost every other kit that we have used we had experienced some level of re-engineering done on our end.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Great convo going thus far guys...keep in mind that the limitation on the EB platform is not the turbo system...it is the fueling system. We are looking into easier and more efficient solution still. But, all of that engineering takes time and most importantly...TONS of capital. Give it time, with all of the us working hard to find a solution for the same problem we will crack the code!

 

[wireless]

Here's a question for you, LM.

Fifth injector. Would it be possible to add an auxillary injector into the IM, which would help prevent additional carbon buildup?

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Here's a question for you, LM.

Fifth injector. Would it be possible to add an auxillary injector into the IM, which would help prevent additional carbon buildup?

I'm not sure that if adding an additional injector that far upstream would really be all that beneficial. We have not tried anything like that on the 2.3L as of yet.

 

[mbreinin]

I like Borg Warner and Garett Turbos. I prefer units manufacturered to OEM standards. You rarely see a BW fail, but PTE failures are widespread.

Mike

 

[cosmo]

I'll probably go with a Garett turbo, as the stock is garett anyways. Hopefully the transition would then be less painful, but a Borg would be my second.

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