SCCA CAM-C Thread

[Dallas J]

How often are you running courses where you're able to use all of the power? Just curious as we have a local who's on a manual whippled 5.0 and although he's not the most diehard competitor he's rarely if ever in full power and has admitted to short shifting to 3rd sometimes just to control the wheel spin he gets. Even on a super fast course like the one I ran this weekend my time spent at full WOT is a fraction of the total time and even at voodoo + e85 power levels i'm still trying to keep the rear end under me as I almost inevitably have a little steering wheel into the car anywhere on course.

I can put down all the power with the wheel straight in 3rd gear which does 75 at 7500. The big effect is that I was constantly downshifting (or trying but getting locked out cause OEM tune) to 2nd cause the car was so slow out of corners. So this way I have plenty of power thats usually really easy to control.

Actual acceleration change, at the Packwood Prosolo last year I was launching in 1st at 2000 (limit on stock converter) and could launch rolling to full throttle 1-2-3 with zero drama, but it was slow. 1st gear launching was 0.67-0.70g, and 2rd was 0.50-0.53g, 3rd drops down in the 0.4s and 4th in the 0.3s. Yes, we do have an event in Montana where we hit 5th, 4th does 91mph and we still needed a few more MPH.

Heres that event in the Evo. Its the run up to the back hill we hit 90+.



Now with the ESS G2 3rd gear is pulling 0.68-0.7 by 5500 rpms. I haven't logged it to redline cause we haven't been to our bigger site yet. But I'll def see 70ish in packwood.

The changes I made this year on suspension setup have the car putting down power so much better on corner exit than last year as well. I did the billet uprights, dropped rear spring from 700 to 600lbs, added rear bar, re-installed big front bar but at full soft.

Why SC instead of bolt-ons and E85? Its easy power, I can turn it down in lower gears thru torque management, and I don't want another car reliant on E85 for power. The Evo is an ethaholic and our nearest source is an hour away. And to get 500hp, it would cost about as much as the SC with a lot more work. Plus the SC is easily reversible for resale.

And a boosted Coyote is just awesome.

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[mavisky]

That makes total sense. Im still much higher on rear rate so unable to put the power down as well, but don't have as much to manage. I try to drive mine like a giant miata more than a typical muscle car currently.

 

[Gearz]

You can mat it in a Miata and unless you're in a turn, all it'll do is get louder. Not the same in a Mustang. I can if I'm down in the doldrums of under 4K rpm (Voodoo) but otherwise, I try to drive it like there's an egg between my foot and the gas pedal.

 

[mavisky]

You can mat it in a Miata and unless you're in a turn, all it'll do is get louder. Not the same in a Mustang. I can if I'm down in the doldrums of under 4K rpm (Voodoo) but otherwise, I try to drive it like there's an egg between my foot and the gas pedal.

100% agreed. That sub 4k Voodoo torque canyon is real.

 

[Dallas J]

Stock I could roll out of the start basically full throttle in 1st without any thought to traction. Felt so anemic compared to what Im use to.

Now, I leave in 2nd and if you listen to any of my runs I get a nice little chirping of the tires but not spinning. Looking at the data, I roll into throttle to about 70% then back off to 40% or so to maintain traction. I dont think about it, just automatically do it. But its REALLY easy to control unless the 2-3 shift decides to give me clutch kick dorifto spin.

 

[mavisky]

Running 2-3 is so weird. Those 10 speeds are so weird.

 

[Dallas J]

Think of it more like a short ratio 6 speed where you only use 2-6 for performance and 7-10 as OD cruising. 1st is useless.
I need to tweak my shift maps so sport mod automatically shifts to second at a stop and never downshifts to 1st.

Right now I do have base mode set to skip 2nd so on the street I don’t have to deal with the harsh 2-3.

 

[LightningGT350R]

Talk to 10 people and you'll probably get 10 different answers, but having had a Vortech on my car making 650 to the wheels it just wasn't usable on most autocross courses. I loved the power but was actually slower than I am now NA. I do wish I could add another 50 or so whp as I'm only at 430 now but IMO unless you have a great TC strategy (via tuning - or buy a Camaro with the 10 step PTM) there are so few places where I can use more than 500 whp (unless you're AWD) that it ends up being more of a limitation because I was constantly having to catch the rear versus being able to aggressively negotiate the course.

Honestly, I really shouldn't be referencing whp as for me it was the torque delivery that was the issue. I really wanted to keep the supercharger but I found myself putting larger and larger pullies on it, taking gear out (ended at 3.31's with my Tremec = ~80 mph in 2nd), and softening the throttle response just to bandaid the power delivery. The final straw was doing a prosolo event and not being able to get the car to hook up on the launch with 335's on the rear.

Removing the SC'er reduced the front weight of the car by 90 lbs and made the car fun to autocross again - which is the whole point of building my car. And with the exception of one ZL1 (with PTM) and a turbo 4 cylinder Camaro, the top 10 at Nationals last year were all NA. And Yes, I know Schotz has 600+ whp in his Camaro, but it's NA for a reason. He had a ZL1 and went NA in his new car.

I'm happy for anyone that is SC's and love it. I loved my SC'er on the street. It was incredibly fun. But if I ever went back to forced induction it would have to be with a stand alone ECU setup with a very good TC management capability. But that's just my 2 cents and it's based on my lack of talent behind the wheel.

 

[LightningGT350R]

100% agreed. That sub 4k Voodoo torque canyon is real.

It is, but that top end is sooo special. And there are so many places where having that 8250 redline is beneficial, for 1st and 2nd gear. I believe for a Mustang, the VooDoo is the motor to have for autocross. Add long tubes and e85 and that's the perfect motor.

 

[Dallas J]

Heres a dyno example of a G2/125 setup and why I went with it. The torque really only increased by 100ft-lbs peak, and the HP is made holding that torque longer as the boost makes up for top end air flow restrictions. It also only weighs about 40lbs total. They claim 35lbs total change, but after weighing things its more like 40lbs.

At least in my case, the stock power was just sad. Now I can still use all the throttle, though it does take a bit more talent with the right foot.

My wife also drives the mustang and the trick with that is she just runs it in 4th gear. 4th gear now is faster than stock 2nd, but its gear reduced enough to be able to get away with ham-footing things.

Throwing out my issues with the stupid 2-3 shift, the car really is easy to manage. I certainly dont have a magic right foot, though I do have more years doing it than most (23rd year).

 

[mavisky]

It is, but that top end is sooo special. And there are so many places where having that 8250 redline is beneficial, for 1st and 2nd gear. I believe for a Mustang, the VooDoo is the motor to have for autocross. Add long tubes and e85 and that's the perfect motor.

Get it bumped to 9,000 and you can party.

 

[NightmareMoon]

9,000 RPM with a 5+ liter V8.

 

[LightningGT350R]

Get it bumped to 9,000 and you can party.

Did you have to do valve springs or any other mods (other then the tune) to rev it that high? And, will it last reving it to that regularly?

I've heard Coyotes can safely do8k with springs and retainers. Whether or not there is any power up there is another question, but avoiding the rev limiter would be nice.

 

[mavisky]

This was specifically for situations like this. My main CAMC competition locally in his 2014 GT had to shift to 3rd and back to 2nd. I am usually within tenths of a second of him on most courses, but beat him by just over a second at this event. My tuner built the 9,000 rpm limiter with a soft limiter so it just climbs and then sits there without bouncing or anything to limit potential damage.

 

[Dallas J]

Heres some pulls on a mustang dyno. Limited by airflow on the small intercooler it was heating up pretty quick but not cooling back down.

Stock on a mustang dyno a Gen3 makes 380-400hp and 350-370tq.

With the lowest boost and 92 oct my setup made peak ~550hp/510tq. This would be low 600s dynojet. I think I make around 6-7psi over 7k, so its pretty low boost.

But what the dyno does show well, we make over 450ft/lbs before 3000rpm. No bad! I thought we'd end up with less than 500ft-lbs and a bit more up top. But some higher octane, ducting and airflow on the FMIC, a bit more pulley, and torque management to handle peak mid range, we could keep around 500ft-lbs longer and a bit less torque drop off up top.

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