Tech details: Front knuckle (upright) differences, GT base vs Magneride vs Mach1

[Dallas J]

Hey all, working on some things and needed to really get an idea of the changes through S550 iterations. I'll post up what I'm finding so far, but feel free to help with data and double checking.

Why collate the data? I come from (and still a big member of) the Evo world, we share everything we know to build the community. Seems there's a bit of marketing driven "data" that's not really accurate. Id rather have a discussion to figure it out than play poker and hide my cards.

We know the upright has several versions, here's the count of what I've been able to find. Either visually or claimed online.

1. Pre-2022 Non-magneride
   1. Press on bearing
2. Magneride
   1. Bolt on bearing
   2. Solid back
   3. JR3C-3K170-a (or 171 for other side)
3. Mach1
   1. Bolt on bearing
   2. hole through center
   3. NR3C-3K170-AA (171 for other side) stamped on body from parts ordered, and pictures from ford. PN at Ford Parts is NR3Z-3K185-A
   4. Seems to also be on 2022+ GTs.
4. GT350/500 variants
   1. Radial Mount
   2. Unknown geometry differences.

I cared about understanding if and what geometry changes happened since our favorite 6-letter company claims geometry and RC adjustments to accommodate lowering and sell a full bolt on kit. If you're trying to make a conversion to the stronger bolt-on bearing, look on ebay for complete assemblies with knuckle, bearing, and ABS sensor for ~$100/side. The Mach1 bearing is trapezoid shape and not square plus the window thru center.

Well, I have a 2020 302a w/o magneride and bought used Mach1 bearings and scanned both. Heres the two lined up at the wheel mount face and aligned to strut angle.

As far as geometry changes go, within the noise they are the same. There is no roll center, bump steer, virtual pivot, or other changes related to the lower mount points. Its the same.

Beside the obvious wheel bearing and associated ABS sensor change, the strut mount offset seems to be the only "real" change here. There's an additional ~7.5mm clearance at the lower mount hole and 1degree additional camber. This of course gives that extra 7.5mm to inner wheel clearance likely to help with their 305/10.5 combo.

This is also a crosspost from the "other'" mustang forum. But this place seems to have a larger audience. If nothing else, maybe more people will call me an idiot here or refute any info posted ;)

If someone has a GT350 upright sitting around, Id be will to pay to ship it here, scan, and send back. Would be great to see any differences used on the other cars.

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[Dallas J]

I got everything back together, aligned, and test driven. The ~7.5mm offset definitely helps pulling the wheels inboard. Im running about 3mm clearance wheel to strut and -3.5deg front camber with the 315s on 18x11.5s. Its all tight, but a bunch of ripping around today and zero signs of rubbing.

Other important fact, the resistance difference between Standard and Magneride ABS sensors (~4M ohm for standard and 0.4M ohm for Magneride) doesn't seem to matter. I assumed as much because VR (variable reluctance) sensors work with a varying output voltage that's filtered to a specific voltage to count. Also, if someone is searching to find the resistance values of a sensor because I couldnt find them either, they were as mentioned above.

The wheels Im running are Apex 18x11.5 +50 with 25mm front spacer. MCS coilovers with custom top mounts. Strut tops cut with a 2 7/8" hole saw and custom insert to align (PM me if you want the free model to do your own).

I see why narrower wheels are typically needed to fit the 315s, its not the tire limiting inner positioning, its the wheel lip.

18x11s are probably doable on the standard GT knuckle/upright and 18x11.5 on the Magneride or 22+ knuckle.

I'm working on my billet version that are another 20mm offset at the strut mount among other adjustments. But hopefully some of this info is helpful to at least one person out there.

 

[GTP]

...
I see why narrower wheels are typically needed to fit the 315s, its not the tire limiting inner positioning, its the wheel lip.
...

I have Apex 19x11 running 305's, square. I will be mounting 315's next. Are you saying that the inner rim bead will position both tire insides to the same position? That was my reasoning, and it seems as though I won't need an even wider spacer for the wider tires.

 

[Dallas J]

I have Apex 19x11 running 305's, square. I will be mounting 315's next. Are you saying that the inner rim bead will position both tire insides to the same position? That was my reasoning, and it seems as though I won't need an even wider spacer for the wider tires.

That sounds about right. The only reason it wouldnt be the case is if you have like the spring perch (coilover) or something wider than the body itself.

 

[DougS550]

Hey all, working on some things and needed to really get an idea of the changes through S550 iterations. I'll post up what I'm finding so far, but feel free to help with data and double checking.

Why collate the data? I come from (and still a big member of) the Evo world, we share everything we know to build the community. Seems there's a bit of marketing driven "data" that's not really accurate. Id rather have a discussion to figure it out than play poker and hide my cards.

We know the upright has several versions, here's the count of what I've been able to find. Either visually or claimed online.

1. Pre-2022 Non-magneride
   1. Press on bearing
2. Magneride
   1. Bolt on bearing
   2. Solid back
   3. JR3C-3K170-a (or 171 for other side)
3. Mach1
   1. Bolt on bearing
   2. hole through center
   3. NR3C-3K170-AA (171 for other side) stamped on body from parts ordered, and pictures from ford. PN at Ford Parts is NR3Z-3K185-A
   4. Seems to also be on 2022+ GTs.
4. GT350/500 variants
   1. Radial Mount
   2. Unknown geometry differences.

I cared about understanding if and what geometry changes happened since our favorite 6-letter company claims geometry and RC adjustments to accommodate lowering and sell a full bolt on kit. If you're trying to make a conversion to the stronger bolt-on bearing, look on ebay for complete assemblies with knuckle, bearing, and ABS sensor for ~$100/side. The Mach1 bearing is trapezoid shape and not square plus the window thru center.

Well, I have a 2020 302a w/o magneride and bought used Mach1 bearings and scanned both. Heres the two lined up at the wheel mount face and aligned to strut angle.

As far as geometry changes go, within the noise they are the same. There is no roll center, bump steer, virtual pivot, or other changes related to the lower mount points. Its the same.

Beside the obvious wheel bearing and associated ABS sensor change, the strut mount offset seems to be the only "real" change here. There's an additional ~7.5mm clearance at the lower mount hole and 1degree additional camber. This of course gives that extra 7.5mm to inner wheel clearance likely to help with their 305/10.5 combo.

This is also a crosspost from the "other'" mustang forum. But this place seems to have a larger audience. If nothing else, maybe more people will call me an idiot here or refute any info posted ;)

If someone has a GT350 upright sitting around, Id be will to pay to ship it here, scan, and send back. Would be great to see any differences used on the other cars.

Hi. I see you installed the bump steer kit and upgraded knuckles. I am having issues with bump steer ever since I installed my Hoosier Track Attack Pro Tires. My car is a PP1 so I think they have the upgraded front knuckles. Did the bump steer kit eliminate the front bump steer issues? If so, do you have a picture of how you placed the spacers on the Tie rod ends to level them out.
Thanks

 

[Dallas J]

Hi. I see you installed the bump steer kit and upgraded knuckles. I am having issues with bump steer ever since I installed my Hoosier Track Attack Pro Tires. My car is a PP1 so I think they have the upgraded front knuckles. Did the bump steer kit eliminate the front bump steer issues? If so, do you have a picture of how you placed the spacers on the Tie rod ends to level them out.
Thanks

I don't have any bump steer kit, haven't measured my bumpsteer and wont till I finish the billet uprights and test those.

But, the PP1 has the standard upright/knuckles unless you have MagRide, which I only think was available on the PP2? Unsure if thats a fact though.

In general, on MacStrut cars, making the steering arm and lower control arm parallel as a base-line works well.

 

[DougS550]

I don't have any bump steer kit, haven't measured my bumpsteer and wont till I finish the billet uprights and test those.

But, the PP1 has the standard upright/knuckles unless you have MagRide, which I only think was available on the PP2? Unsure if thats a fact though.

In general, on MacStrut cars, making the steering arm and lower control arm parallel as a base-line works well.

My PP1 has Magneride.

 

[Epiphany]

Great insight here.

 

[Mr & Mrs Shrek]

I got everything back together, aligned, and test driven. The ~7.5mm offset definitely helps pulling the wheels inboard. Im running about 3mm clearance wheel to strut and -3.5deg front camber with the 315s on 18x11.5s. Its all tight, but a bunch of ripping around today and zero signs of rubbing.

Other important fact, the resistance difference between Standard and Magneride ABS sensors (~4M ohm for standard and 0.4M ohm for Magneride) doesn't seem to matter. I assumed as much because VR (variable reluctance) sensors work with a varying output voltage that's filtered to a specific voltage to count. Also, if someone is searching to find the resistance values of a sensor because I couldnt find them either, they were as mentioned above.

The wheels Im running are Apex 18x11.5 +50 with 25mm front spacer. MCS coilovers with custom top mounts. Strut tops cut with a 2 7/8" hole saw and custom insert to align (PM me if you want the free model to do your own).

I see why narrower wheels are typically needed to fit the 315s, its not the tire limiting inner positioning, its the wheel lip.

18x11s are probably doable on the standard GT knuckle/upright and 18x11.5 on the Magneride or 22+ knuckle.

I'm working on my billet version that are another 20mm offset at the strut mount among other adjustments. But hopefully some of this info is helpful to at least one person out there.

Hey all, working on some things and needed to really get an idea of the changes through S550 iterations. I'll post up what I'm finding so far, but feel free to help with data and double checking.

Why collate the data? I come from (and still a big member of) the Evo world, we share everything we know to build the community. Seems there's a bit of marketing driven "data" that's not really accurate. Id rather have a discussion to figure it out than play poker and hide my cards.

We know the upright has several versions, here's the count of what I've been able to find. Either visually or claimed online.

1. Pre-2022 Non-magneride
   1. Press on bearing
2. Magneride
   1. Bolt on bearing
   2. Solid back
   3. JR3C-3K170-a (or 171 for other side)
3. Mach1
   1. Bolt on bearing
   2. hole through center
   3. NR3C-3K170-AA (171 for other side) stamped on body from parts ordered, and pictures from ford. PN at Ford Parts is NR3Z-3K185-A
   4. Seems to also be on 2022+ GTs.
4. GT350/500 variants
   1. Radial Mount
   2. Unknown geometry differences.

I cared about understanding if and what geometry changes happened since our favorite 6-letter company claims geometry and RC adjustments to accommodate lowering and sell a full bolt on kit. If you're trying to make a conversion to the stronger bolt-on bearing, look on ebay for complete assemblies with knuckle, bearing, and ABS sensor for ~$100/side. The Mach1 bearing is trapezoid shape and not square plus the window thru center.

Well, I have a 2020 302a w/o magneride and bought used Mach1 bearings and scanned both. Heres the two lined up at the wheel mount face and aligned to strut angle.

As far as geometry changes go, within the noise they are the same. There is no roll center, bump steer, virtual pivot, or other changes related to the lower mount points. Its the same.

Beside the obvious wheel bearing and associated ABS sensor change, the strut mount offset seems to be the only "real" change here. There's an additional ~7.5mm clearance at the lower mount hole and 1degree additional camber. This of course gives that extra 7.5mm to inner wheel clearance likely to help with their 305/10.5 combo.

This is also a crosspost from the "other'" mustang forum. But this place seems to have a larger audience. If nothing else, maybe more people will call me an idiot here or refute any info posted ;)

If someone has a GT350 upright sitting around, Id be will to pay to ship it here, scan, and send back. Would be great to see any differences used on the other cars.

@Dallas J . Any luck on someone sending the GT350 knuckle to scan? I going to be getting a pair and maybe I could get the supplier to send them to you and you post them to me in Australia afterward. I would obviously send money for postage and handling

 

[Dallas J]

I would absolutely take you up on that. Scanning is quick enough and I think theres a lot of people that would be interested in seeing what or if there's any geometry differences.

 

[Mr & Mrs Shrek]

I would absolutely take you up on that. Scanning is quick enough and I think theres a lot of people that would be interested in seeing what or if there's any geometry differences.

@Dallas J That's great, I will send you a PM to work out the details

 

[Mr & Mrs Shrek]

@Dallas J That's great, I will send you a PM to work out the detail

@Dallas J Tried sending a PM but it said I cannot send one to you.

"Oops! We ran into some problems.
You may not start a direct message with the following recipients: Dallas J. "

 

[DougS550]

@Dallas J Tried sending a PM but it said I cannot send one to you.

"Oops! We ran into some problems.
You may not start a direct message with the following recipients: Dallas J. "

I wonder why?

 

[KingFuze]

Hey all, working on some things and needed to really get an idea of the changes through S550 iterations. I'll post up what I'm finding so far, but feel free to help with data and double checking.

Why collate the data? I come from (and still a big member of) the Evo world, we share everything we know to build the community. Seems there's a bit of marketing driven "data" that's not really accurate. Id rather have a discussion to figure it out than play poker and hide my cards.

We know the upright has several versions, here's the count of what I've been able to find. Either visually or claimed online.

1. Pre-2022 Non-magneride
   1. Press on bearing
2. Magneride
   1. Bolt on bearing
   2. Solid back
   3. JR3C-3K170-a (or 171 for other side)
3. Mach1
   1. Bolt on bearing
   2. hole through center
   3. NR3C-3K170-AA (171 for other side) stamped on body from parts ordered, and pictures from ford. PN at Ford Parts is NR3Z-3K185-A
   4. Seems to also be on 2022+ GTs.
4. GT350/500 variants
   1. Radial Mount
   2. Unknown geometry differences.

I cared about understanding if and what geometry changes happened since our favorite 6-letter company claims geometry and RC adjustments to accommodate lowering and sell a full bolt on kit. If you're trying to make a conversion to the stronger bolt-on bearing, look on ebay for complete assemblies with knuckle, bearing, and ABS sensor for ~$100/side. The Mach1 bearing is trapezoid shape and not square plus the window thru center.

Well, I have a 2020 302a w/o magneride and bought used Mach1 bearings and scanned both. Heres the two lined up at the wheel mount face and aligned to strut angle.

As far as geometry changes go, within the noise they are the same. There is no roll center, bump steer, virtual pivot, or other changes related to the lower mount points. Its the same.

Beside the obvious wheel bearing and associated ABS sensor change, the strut mount offset seems to be the only "real" change here. There's an additional ~7.5mm clearance at the lower mount hole and 1degree additional camber. This of course gives that extra 7.5mm to inner wheel clearance likely to help with their 305/10.5 combo.

This is also a crosspost from the "other'" mustang forum. But this place seems to have a larger audience. If nothing else, maybe more people will call me an idiot here or refute any info posted ;)

If someone has a GT350 upright sitting around, Id be will to pay to ship it here, scan, and send back. Would be great to see any differences used on the other cars.

I know this thread is a bit old but would you mind sharing the stl file for the knuckle scan? i have built a couple of custom knuckles strictly from measurements in fusion. An actual file would let me finalize it all without 3d print change. Thanks!

 

[AcceptableNebula]

@Dallas J I can share a 3D scan I did of my GT350 knuckle if you still need it.

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