SCCA CAM-C Thread

[kz]

Well, would be good to meet you if you do make it to STL. I am hoping to be moderately adequate at this sport by the May event.

This is such a fun event (at least one in Peru always is) that you should sign up regardless how you feel about it. I will try to make it.

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[NightmareMoon]

Local friend just bought a Mach 1 and it said it had rear seat delete from factory, listed on a window sticker.

Agree with CAM T cars - but I thought they always could run C ? Never paid attention to it honestly... But they're lighter, typically have way more power (at least competetive builds that I see), have very well sorted out suspension and are generally smaller (which IMO matters too, especially on small courses) so I am not sure why someone thinks they would be slower than C cars.

Agreed. I sent min my feedback to those ends.

 

[Dana Pants]

A common ruleset with XS makes a lot of sense including wings. As winter is upon me, I'm more excited by the idea of highway driving in a snowstorm with rear downforce than actually autocrossing.

 

[TeeLew]

I'm not really interested in making an Auto-X car more aero-dependent. I'll do whatever, but I don't see it as a positive. It just makes all the 'really into it' guys go faster while leaving more casual competitors where they are. Spreading out the field makes for worse competition.

What is the actual advantage is being able to put aero on the car? You go a little faster. If any of us wanted to go faster at the Auto-X, we could just get faster (i.e. smaller) cars. Our cars aren't particularly well suited for parking lot wars. That's what makes them fun.

 

[TeeLew]

10" over the roof line and 6" setback is a bit much. It should be roof line height and body plan view.

 

[kz]

It starts to wander somewhat far from a street driven car - I don't really want to be driving around with a wing, especially one that's 10" over the roof line. But I personally don't see that particular rule not passing. Crowd wants wings, they're going to get wings. Good time to be a wing manufacturer.

 

[mavisky]

I mean the 10" spoiler was a little ridiculous to begin with, but 10" should be above the decklid not the roofline for wings.

 

[Dana Pants]

The front aero is quite limited. This prevents giant rear wings from making the cars faster. In XS land, the cars are generally running reasonable angles of attack and wing sizes to avoid understeer city.

 

[SteveW]

One nice thing is the change of wording from licensed and insured to just legal to drive. I've been considering what's next for my car in a way that I wouldn't have to maintain registration and insurance on it.

I rarely drive my car on the road anymore and when I do it is mainly just to feel out damping and alignment settings ahead of the next event. Looks like it could stay in CAMC without the expense of insurance and registration as opposed to getting forever creamed in something like SM.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I'm not really interested in making an Auto-X car more aero-dependent. I'll do whatever, but I don't see it as a positive. It just makes all the 'really into it' guys go faster while leaving more casual competitors where they are. Spreading out the field makes for worse competition.

What is the actual advantage is being able to put aero on the car? You go a little faster. If any of us wanted to go faster at the Auto-X, we could just get faster (i.e. smaller) cars. Our cars aren't particularly well suited for parking lot wars. That's what makes them fun.

In some ways we were already there with the spoiler and vague allowances for splitters, no mention of canards, etc. When I showed up at a Texas tour with legal aero for the first time, I think I put like 2 seconds on the class (they were fast courses). That was a bit of a shock to the guys and it really started the local arms race for aero. That was a while ago.

Personally I doubt the drag advantages of wings will be all that impactful, but I am pretty worried about the new diffuser rules. Good diffusers are harder to come by than wings, and a good one built to the full allowed size looks nearly impossible to package under a mustang without drastic change to the exhaust, etc. Maybe with a maximized wing the diffuser will be too much understeer, that's certainly possible, but IDK.

 

[mavisky]

In some ways we were already there with the spoiler and vague allowances for splitters, no mention of canards, etc. When I showed up at a Texas tour with legal aero for the first time, I think I put like 2 seconds on the class (they were fast courses). That was a bit of a shock to the guys and it really started the local arms race for aero. That was a while ago.

Personally I doubt the drag advantages of wings will be all that impactful, but I am pretty worried about the new diffuser rules. Good diffusers are harder to come by than wings, and a good one built to the full allowed size looks nearly impossible to package under a mustang without drastic change to the exhaust, etc. Maybe with a maximized wing the diffuser will be too much understeer, that's certainly possible, but IDK.

I think the battle will still be over front end grip and to an extent the new rules allow you multiple ways to balance that out at the rear. I still think it should be 10" above the mounting surface of the wing, but I'm guessing there's something out there that they have in mind with the "roof" wording like a Dodge Magnum or Cadillac CTS-V Wagon or something.

 

[WItoTX]

I really don't think the rules are going to change much. It offers some clarification that was much needed, and me personally, I'd rather bolt on a wing that I can easily remove for street driving. I've never been a fan of the spoiler. I had been searching for a used decklid to throw on my car so I could do the spoiler, now I am glad I don't have to.

Additionally, here in Houston we have a guy here running a bone stock ZL1, who gave the 5th place finisher at Nationals a run for his money here in the Houston Region. He ended up second, but the last few events was REALLY close to knocking out a full aero Mustang with a zero aero ZL1. I personally think the ZL1 should not be allowed in CAM, but that is another story.

I still believe the driver knowing his car is 95% of the battle. Folks daily driving their cars have a huge advantage.

 

[kz]

Stupid question - are there wings that can bolted to existing trunk lid holes ? Because if you have to drill, then this doesn't make it much different than a spoiler...

Another thought - if we allow basically everything at this point, why hold on to street tire ? Yoks aren't that much cheaper than Hoosier.

 

[mavisky]

Stupid question - are there wings that can bolted to existing trunk lid holes ? Because if you have to drill, then this doesn't make it much different than a spoiler...

Another thought - if we allow basically everything at this point, why hold on to street tire ? Yoks aren't that much cheaper than Hoosier.

There are some that will use the outer mounting points, but they will still leave you with exposed center holes. The odds of me ever finding a good condition wingless Orange Fury trunk lid are next to nothing so I'm still looking at some form of removable spoiler. Just dropped the factory track pack spoiler with ZL1 Addons wickerbill and went with the Scott Drake spoiler instead which is already an inch taller and a steeper angle. Looking to build a custom wicker bill for it. Doubt I'll get to the class limit of 10", but i should be able to safely add a few more inches to it and get close to 6.5 - 7" off the decklid without destroying the relatively flimsy Scott Drake spoiler. Really wish someone made a spoiler in this profile in carbon or fiberglass even. This blow molded plastic they use isn't nearly as strong as the factory spoiler.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Stupid question - are there wings that can bolted to existing trunk lid holes ? Because if you have to drill, then this doesn't make it much different than a spoiler...

Another thought - if we allow basically everything at this point, why hold on to street tire ? Yoks aren't that much cheaper than Hoosier.

idk about stock bolt holes, but there are suction cup mounted spoilers now.

and hoosiers probably last longer than Yokes and they have contingency programs too… but I don’t see that happening, it also moves CAM farther away from t

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