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SCCA CAM-C Thread

NightmareMoon

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@NightmareMoon congratulations on the fantastic result! Thanks for the write-up too.

Did you have 315/30 A052s and where did you end up with on pressures? At one local event a couple weekends ago I tried up to 34 in front but down to 27 in the back. My tires are wasted though.

It is surprising that a 60 mph top of 2nd is enough. Have they slowed the top speeds but increased the overall average of courses now?
ended up around 34-35 psi front and 30-31 rear. Idk if its right but it drove well enough with fresh tires and my setup. Some people can fit 12” fronts (I can’t) and they would probably run less.

It does feel like they’re trying to keep top speeds lower (versus the 75+ Mph we’ve seen before) and a very high average speed. I love that balance.
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NightmareMoon

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congrats!

Thank you for confirming fuel starve.

We have a local ZL1 1LE. The consensus is it’s way to stiff and doesn’t carry it’s weight well. It’s currently running no swaybars, stock springs. And semi regularly lifts the inside rear wheel. Physics is broken for that car.
we have a former national champion (Ryan Otis) driving a ZL1 1LE in the local club. I’m not sure what all he’s done to it (I think its stock) but he’s a PAX monster, taking nearly every local event since he moved here (Nankang tires). He seems to make it work. One local guy is butthurt cause he runs it in CAMC where the PAX is softer than its natural home in SS. He skipped Nats this year for reasons. Watch out for him next year, he’s an alien.
 

Gearz

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Jacob, awesome job. Your east course run was as close to mistake free as I've seen.

Regarding speeds for the courses, I think the courses this year were just a little slower than the last couple of years. Here's a speed plot from the East course with my fastest run (had me in 3rd place) on Tuesday and Strano's 3rd run. I really botched the turn after the first slalom and you can really see how it killed my time compared with his. Average speed was around 44 mph but you can see there were a lot of digs from 30 to 50mph.
1663195135895.png


For the west course, there are far fewer hard accelerations and average speed is lower (around 42mph) even with the fast run through the finish. You can see Sam's car hitting the rev limiter right at the lights where mine continues (all hail the +8K rpm redline).
1663195419074.png


These are FS cars so I'm sure Jacobs speed plot would be higher overall with more power, grip and less weight.

KZ, sorry I didn't find you in grid to say hi.
-Brian
 

kz

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KZ, sorry I didn't find you in grid to say hi.
-Brian
I meant to come watch FS compete (as it was as close as it gets to CAM C) but timing in the 5th heat never worked out. Congrats on the trophy Brian !

As the butthurt goes - a whole bunch of FS people ran CAM in ProSolo on the eastern side of the country (vs. running S3 against quite different cars, with quite sad results for the CAM crowd :) ) and unless they reshuffle the classes, I don't see that changing next year.
 

TeeLew

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Physics is broken for that car.
What do the Wong's run? Isn't that a ZL1 or 1LE something or other?

It sounds like whoever is tuning the suspension might be a little broken, too.
 

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TeeLew

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I think they ran regular SS at some point, this year C7GS in SSP.
Whatever it was, I bet it was bloody quick.
 

NightmareMoon

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NightmareMoon

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Jacob, awesome job. Your east course run was as close to mistake free as I've seen.

Regarding speeds for the courses, I think the courses this year were just a little slower than the last couple of years. Here's a speed plot from the East course with my fastest run (had me in 3rd place) on Tuesday and Strano's 3rd run. I really botched the turn after the first slalom and you can really see how it killed my time compared with his. Average speed was around 44 mph but you can see there were a lot of digs from 30 to 50mph.
1663195135895.png


For the west course, there are far fewer hard accelerations and average speed is lower (around 42mph) even with the fast run through the finish. You can see Sam's car hitting the rev limiter right at the lights where mine continues (all hail the +8K rpm redline).
1663195419074.png


These are FS cars so I'm sure Jacobs speed plot would be higher overall with more power, grip and less weight.

KZ, sorry I didn't find you in grid to say hi.
-Brian
I can see from the these plots where I got ahead of Sam and yourself on the east course. (not that far ahead, Sam put down a great time and beat my first two attempts, and you landed a solid trophy position). My peak speed (gearing and tires) was only 63mph, but I got y'all in a couple of the high speed transitions late on the course. I carried more speed down to the first pinched tight right-hander, and after the 90 degree left at the far corner of the course I didn't slow down as much through that next offset. Finally I executed in Corner 5's transition before the turnaround with less speed lost.

That's all probably mainly helped by the aero and stiffer springs supporting confidence in those sections more so than power or weight advantages). Thats when the CAM build really turned on for me was when I sorted out some aero.

My car is only ~420 at the rear wheels and weighs ~3650+-. CAMC allows a 3300lb car, but I'm not sure any of us S550 drivers know how to do that without some pretty drastic measures. Fletcher is at 3550lbs with lexan rear window and a lot of interior removed (headliner, center console, glove box)
 

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I can see from the these plots where I got ahead of Sam and yourself on the east course. (not that far ahead, Sam put down a great time and beat my first two attempts, and you landed a solid trophy position). My peak speed (gearing and tires) was only 63mph, but I got y'all in a couple of the high speed transitions late on the course. I carried more speed down to the first pinched tight right-hander, and after the 90 degree left at the far corner of the course I didn't slow down as much through that next offset. Finally I executed in Corner 5's transition before the turnaround with less speed lost.

That's all probably mainly helped by the aero and stiffer springs supporting confidence in those sections more so than power or weight advantages). Thats when the CAM build really turned on for me was when I sorted out some aero.

My car is only ~420 at the rear wheels and weighs ~3650+-. CAMC allows a 3300lb car, but I'm not sure any of us S550 drivers know how to do that without some pretty drastic measures. Fletcher is at 3550lbs with lexan rear window and a lot of interior removed (headliner, center console, glove box)
You are the only 'muscle car' on 200tw to pull off a 76 between Street, Street Touring and CAM. Well done aero must be the difference among yous at the top of the classes.

The fact that the BS/FS cars were in the 77s on soft suspensions has me really questioning my choices about the much stiffer springs I've been on with nothing but a half-assed rear spoiler.
 

NightmareMoon

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You are the only 'muscle car' on 200tw to pull off a 76 between Street, Street Touring and CAM. Well done aero must be the difference among yous at the top of the classes.

The fact that the BS/FS cars were in the 77s on soft suspensions has me really questioning my choices about the much stiffer springs I've been on with nothing but a half-assed rear spoiler.
I drove Brian Burdette's car in a mild CAMC trim back to back with my car. Same exact suspension (although his is newer), he has a base GT w/ 3.31s and I have aero, but it was pretty apples to apples all things considered. He was on ~450lb front springs and I was on 650lb springs. Wow it was a difference, it just felt like he had a ton of compliant front grip compared to my car skating around, and the places where stiffer springs might be advantageous just didn't show up on a low grip local site. You had to time things differently because his car would shift weight more on the softer springs.

After that I went and bought 550lb front springs to try, but chickened out and haven't put them on yet. The 650lb springs do drive well on concrete. Sometime this year I'll do the experiment.
 

SteveW

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I drove Brian Burdette's car in a mild CAMC trim back to back with my car. Same exact suspension (although his is newer), he has a base GT w/ 3.31s and I have aero, but it was pretty apples to apples all things considered. He was on ~450lb front springs and I was on 650lb springs. Wow it was a difference, it just felt like he had a ton of compliant front grip compared to my car skating around, and the places where stiffer springs might be advantageous just didn't show up on a low grip local site. You had to time things differently because his car would shift weight more on the softer springs.

After that I went and bought 550lb front springs to try, but chickened out and haven't put them on yet. The 650lb springs do drive well on concrete. Sometime this year I'll do the experiment.
I've been on a 550lb front and 1440 Hyperco 5.5" drop in coil with adj perch rear. On a local surface that is smooth my car feels like a precision instrument. Last event I did though was on a crap asphalt bumpy lot and had major ride and grip issues. Also, the ride on roads is not like in sync. I know in terms of the flat ride concept these rates are way out of whack front to rear.

The above is also with Viking Crusader double adj front struts and triple rears.

Since the crap bumpy lot was such a disaster and I have a bunch of old setup options in the garage I thought I'd retry some of the old stuff with my more experienced now knowledge base. I built up the old Roush V3 struts with some 350lb springs and put them in the car. Roush V3 shocks in back too. The 350lb front spring is pretty much in line with a 1440 rear in the OEM location. Wheel rates and HZ are very close to flat ride.

Ride on the road now is awesome. So the flat ride concept thing is no joke. I will run on Sunday at the nice smooth surface lot so we'll see what that feels like now. Maybe I'll just leave the V3s in for a while or build up the Vikings with 350lb fronts. I need to know if the V3s have any sort of low-speed control for things like trail braking, mid corner noodling around with balance/rotation and putting the power down on exit.
 
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TeeLew

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Also, the ride on roads is not like in sync. I know in terms of the flat ride concept these rates are way out of whack front to rear.

The above is also with Viking Crusader double adj front struts and triple rears.

Since the crap bumpy lot was such a disaster and I have a bunch of old setup options in the garage I thought I'd retry some of the old stuff with my more experienced now knowledge base. I built up the old Roush V3 struts with some 350lb springs and put them in the car. Roush V3 shocks in back too. The 350lb front spring is pretty much in line with a 1440 rear in the OEM location. Wheel rates and HZ are very close to flat ride.

Ride on the road now is awesome. So the flat ride concept thing is no joke.
I'm sorry, flat ride has(d) its place, but that place does not involve a stopwatch. Forget flat ride & cut your rear spring rate... A ton. If it was not good on rough pavement, it's just a simple lack of compliance. Don't make this tougher than it is.
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