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Lund tune bugging me

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Forestlump

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Do you have a catch can that's plumbed back into the intake? Because a catch can will not fully eliminate all the oil being sucked back through the system and this could be what you're experiencing. Vent the crank case to the atmosphere and see if this changes anything.

Everyone is quick to blame the tune but based off what i'm seeing. You have things to do better on your part to tiddy up the tune. Have you smoke tested the whole system under pressure? I've seen tight couplers leak and if its after the maf can create tune changes.

Do this before worrying about changing tuners.
Thanks, I'm permanently vented to atmosphere, catch cans always empty apart from a fine amount.

It's a Paxton so blow through Maf, only one hose between the manifold and Maf and there's no penetrations in it. Manifold has every port blanked apart from vacuum line for BOV, servo and carbon canister via it's valve. All hose clamps are good.

I'm 100% confident I don't have leaks, but cheers for the input.
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robvas

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When I removed cats and fitted headers/exhaust I noticed a boost drop of 1.5 psi, it's being lost down the exhaust because of NA cam specs on boost.
It's not the 'NA cams'. That's normal...you're increasing the engine's efficiency and airflow, "boost is just a measurement of restriction"....
 

NO1CARES

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Thanks, I'm permanently vented to atmosphere, catch cans always empty apart from a fine amount.

It's a Paxton so blow through Maf, only one hose between the manifold and Maf and there's no penetrations in it. Manifold has every port blanked apart from vacuum line for BOV, servo and carbon canister via it's valve. All hose clamps are good.

I'm 100% confident I don't have leaks, but cheers for the input.
Do you still have the air straightener insert inside the pipe before the maf? You should have a solid set up and if there’s no air leaks, should run fat. I’ve been with shoemaker performance since 2018 and has tuned every version of my car from a basic v3si to now my v30 and the best part about his work is that he listens. Maybe consider him?
 

engineermike

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It is fascinating, if I had access to a Dyno and the amount of cars you see, I would be experimenting with it too.
If I had a dyno at home, my car would stay on it.

Setting them fixed to me is a waste of useful technology.
Agree 100%.

My thoughts are the same about losing it down the exhaust due to a slightly retarded exhaust cam, it's likely why I have a slightly over rich mixture as the O2 sensors are being misleading by a false lean condition and adding more fuel?...Also for the more accurate o2 readings.
It's possible. I usually command leaner lambda if backpressure is super-low to account for this. The right way to do it is to use "blow through" logic that Ford built into it. This calculates the amount of air that bypasses the combustion process and the effect it has on the O2 sensor reading, and accounts for it. However, it's nearly impossible for us to properly calibrate this data. Oddly, Ford disables this on Coyote and GT500, but enables it on Ecoboost and the stock Roush SC calibration.

I bet the reason Ford has advanced the exhaust timing at the top end on gt500 was to lower cat temps and less blow through and not for power.
Ford actually calculates the exhaust temp and cam timing is one of the inputs. According to their tables, the difference is negligible between the two cam timings used up top.

On a side note, It might explain why you saw a slight gain in power by running cats compared to without. Less cylinder blow through on boost, diluting the exhaust, messing with O2's and also cooling the exhaust compared to the cats which heat up the gas (changing pumping losses).
I accidentally accounted for the O2 sensor effect on the dyno. I attempted to run it leaner without cats since in practice you can, due to not needing to keep the cats cool. However, the blow-through effect on the O2 sensor signal actually put the true lambda right back where I started. I knew this after looking at fuel flow and injector pulsewidth. So, the power effects could be isolated to backpressure, which I think you are correct in that it reduced the blow-through and trapped more air. Now...could I have gained more power without cats had I run less overlap? Possibly, not sure.

I imagine the gen 3 retarded intake cam is due to the extra rev ceiling compared to the previous gens. I suspect that the gen 3 inlet manifold starts to work better at stuffing air in to the cylinder (ram tuning) than what would be lost in compression from the intake valve being left open longer at the begining of the compression stroke. But that only works at the top end.
I would have thought similarly, but I've even found power even on stock NA gen3 engines by reducing the top-end intake cam retard vs stock, thereby making it similar to gen1/2/voodoo/mach1/bullitt. Like I said, I have no idea why Ford would over-retard the intake cam up top on a gen3. (I fully expect that some Ford engineer is reading this and knows the answer but can't reveal it (PM me please))

IAgain what advantage that has when you FI it is probably negligible as the cylinder is already full in that situation.
With a centrif, getting more flow through the engine will reduce boost level, which allows the compressor to run further to the right on its curve. This increases airflow and power. On PD, the "curve" is vertical, so it flows essentially the same regardless of boost. So on a centrif, getting the cam timing right can lower the boost level which leads to more flow, which has a more dramatic effect on power.
 
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Forestlump

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With a centrif, getting more flow through the engine will reduce boost level, which allows the compressor to run further to the right on its curve. This increases airflow and power. On PD, the "curve" is vertical, so it flows essentially the same regardless of boost. So on a centrif, getting the cam timing right can lower the boost level which leads to more flow, which has a more dramatic effect on power.
Yes I see your point, I hadn't thought of that but yeah the CFM will increase through the compressor. So maybe it's not quite as bad as I thought. It's just the O2 readings that are a bit messed up.

It's possible. I usually command leaner lambda if backpressure is super-low to account for this. The right way to do it is to use "blow through" logic that Ford built into it. This calculates the amount of air that bypasses the combustion process and the effect it has on the O2 sensor reading, and accounts for it. However, it's nearly impossible for us to properly calibrate this data. Oddly, Ford disables this on Coyote and GT500, but enables it on Ecoboost and the stock Roush SC calibration.
This is likely the only way of putting it closer, still a guess but its impossible to detain what o2 is additional to combustion or added by blow through without some fancy engine simulating software. How much do you dare though? try a little more until seizure and then back a notch 😂

The Roush must have had some wizards working on it, it's well done.
 

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How is it lund's problem that you need to comply with emissions on a pump gas boosted car with cats?
EXACTLY !!!! Everyone wants to blame the tune.. sounds like he moved the mad sensor or changed the pipe… but it’s the tuner’s fault 🤣🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Vtown702

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Another lund backer i see
Lunds customer service has been shit
They have a high ego when it comes to their tunes, unless you are a high profile customer, they refuse to even double check what they load into your tunes

i had an ecoboost tune from them, it was 5% better than cobbs off the shelf, and they loaded me up with a pp car tune when i wasnt pp, then took me 3 emails to get them to fix that issue alone
And you are a wengard backer we see……. Hey to each his own just cause you had what you claim bad customer service doesn’t mean there are plenty of us who have and still have great service with Lund… I’m no high profile customer. Just order my tunes and follow the simple directions given by Lund and always answer any and all questions. Now I’m shure wengard is good and has his haters also… problem with these forums is who ever the person is tuned by they will recommend there tuner as best.
 

Wolfys11

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And you are a wengard backer we see……. Hey to each his own just cause you had what you claim bad customer service doesn’t mean there are plenty of us who have and still have great service with Lund… I’m no high profile customer. Just order my tunes and follow the simple directions given by Lund and always answer any and all questions. Now I’m shure wengard is good and has his haters also… problem with these forums is who ever the person is tuned by they will recommend there tuner as best.
I back wengerd based off my experience, just like i dont back lund solely for my experience. I didnt say lund is bad, i said i wouldnt go with them. And yes, people on forums will promote who they have, why on earth would i promote one tuner but use a different one 🤣 i tried lund, moved elsewhere, just like forestlump doesnt like his current tune and is going to try elsewhere

I should say problem with the people on the forums is they take everyone elses personal opinion and decision as an attack on them personally, were all opinion based here on a question of which tuner to go to
 

K4fxd

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This is one reason I don't like Lund tunes. This is how they run the cams at idle and part throttle.

VERY LAZY and causes drivability problems.

I never promised Lund or anyone else I'd never post this. This tune came from a car Lund did not lock.
Lund vct.webp
 

Zrussian13

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I back wengerd based off my experience, just like i dont back lund solely for my experience. I didnt say lund is bad, i said i wouldnt go with them. And yes, people on forums will promote who they have, why on earth would i promote one tuner but use a different one 🤣 i tried lund, moved elsewhere, just like forestlump doesnt like his current tune and is going to try elsewhere

I should say problem with the people on the forums is they take everyone elses personal opinion and decision as an attack on them personally, were all opinion based here on a question of which tuner to go to
Hey don't attack me with your opinion a-hole! 😂
 

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WildHorse

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I never promised Lund or anyone else I'd never post this. This tune came from a car Lund did not lock.
How old is that tune ?
 

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WildHorse

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New enough. I have others that are newer and look the same that I promised not to share.
Geez ... that hasn't changed since 2011 then. So much for innovators ha-ha.
 

K4fxd

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I'll say this. I have N/A, PD, centri, and upgraded cam tunes from the infamous Lund. All have the same part throttle cam timing.
 
 








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