BBQ tick - another attempt to understand

[GT 550]

For sure. Just grist for the mill noting that someone on here previously speculated that the tick might be related to the VCT solenoid. @NIXPP2 owns a 2018 Mustang and posted above that the tick is the same. Possibly unrelated and coincidental but there may be something in it if 'Yotes of the same vintage have the same tick.

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[Kong76]

One case leads me to believe it's not cavitation, but instead related to the friction between parts.

Someone here had the BBQ tick, so he added Ceratec and ran the oil many thousands of miles. Since Ceratec claims the treatment lasts many miles once used, the next oil change he used the same oil but didn't put any Ceratec back in. His BBQ tick was stll gone. If the ticking was really caused by oil cavitation then it would have shown back up with the new untreated oil. The friction between parts remained low from the Ceratec treatment, so the only logical conclusion is the tick is related to the level of friction on the parts. Excessive rod side clearance that is affected by the friction level on those parts is still the main suspect IMO.

If the member I'm talking about is reading this, please chime in and add any info about your experience.

I had just the opposite experience. 5000 miles with ceratec no ticking, had dealer change oil as I have always done and tick came back after 24 hrs.

 

[GT Pony]

I had just the opposite experience. 5000 miles with ceratec no ticking, had dealer change oil as I have always done and tick came back after 24 hrs.

Did you use 2 bottles of Ceratec as directed by the manufacturer?

And what oil did the desler use?

If you only used 1/2 or 1 bottle of Ceratec, It's possible the new oil stripped away the anti-friction layer in 24 hrs

 

[Kong76]

Did you use 2 bottles of Ceratec as directed by the manufacturer?

And what oil did the desler use?

If you only used 1/2 or 1 bottle of Ceratec, It's possible the new oil stripped away the anti-friction layer in 24 hrs

I used one bottle on my 16'. I thought the two bottles was only for 18,19s.
Dealer used motorcraft 5w20 semi synthetic.

 

[Kong76]

In regards to video. It doesn't look like rod knock looking at the bearings. Of course they didn't measure crank or rods with a micrometer. They also didn't show crankshaft rod taper, or scuffing of crank side clearance area. I also want to see the VVT chain area. The hydraulic chain tensioner has always been suspect in my mind.

Hey Rick, dealership replaced my tensioners about three months ago and it did not solve the problem. Only thing that worked was the ceratec until I had the oil changed and it came back. Not adding it every change. F that.

 

[GT Pony]

I used one bottle on my 16'. I thought the two bottles was only for 18,19s.
Dealer used motorcraft 5w20 semi synthetic.

LiquidMoly says 1 bottle per 5 liters, so for 8 qts on a Gen2 Coyote it would be 1-3/5 (1.6) bottles.

 

[khsonic03]

Figured I'd post my results/issues. I just bought a 2017 GT PP with 100 miles on it. No tick...until I did my first oil change at 1150 miles 3 days ago. I used Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w-20 and an Ultra Guard filter. Started the car up and immediately noticed the classic BBQ tick. Immediately searched this forum for hours and hours and decided to revert back to Ford Synthetic blend 5w20 and motorcraft filter the very next day (without putting any miles on the car).

Oddly enough...The PUP produced loud ticking when the engine was getting up to temp and doing light revs. Once it got up to temp, the ticking was there, but quieter (did 3 separate cold starts to test this). The Ford syn blend had the opposite effect. There was NO tick when the car was getting up to temp, but the ticking was much louder when it got up to 185+ cylinder head temp. Drove it for a day and there was really no improvement.

Purchased ceratec from amazon. Put one bottle in and it was instantaneous. NO tick. I'm only on day 1, however, so we'll see!

Side note - it broke my heart (and wallet) to drain $60 worth of PUP and ultra guard filter, but I needed to know if using ford spec stuff would make a difference. When I do my next oil change (probably 5k-6k), I will be going back to PUP, but will probably continue with the motorcraft filter. I will run it and see if the tick comes back (just to see), but regardless will definitely be adding ceratec again for peace of mind.

Sucks that we have to deal with this and Ford has taken the stance that it's normal. For me, it's not even worth going to the dealer to fight that uphill battle, unless the ceratec stops doing it's job and the tick comes back. I plan on doing a whipple within a year, so I need to ensure my motor is solid before I do.

 

[scotty]

Figured I'd post my results/issues. I just bought a 2017 GT PP with 100 miles on it. No tick...until I did my first oil change at 1150 miles 3 days ago. I used Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w-20 and an Ultra Guard filter. Started the car up and immediately noticed the classic BBQ tick. Immediately searched this forum for hours and hours and decided to revert back to Ford Synthetic blend 5w20 and motorcraft filter the very next day (without putting any miles on the car).

Oddly enough...The PUP produced loud ticking when the engine was getting up to temp and doing light revs. Once it got up to temp, the ticking was there, but quieter (did 3 separate cold starts to test this). The Ford syn blend had the opposite effect. There was NO tick when the car was getting up to temp, but the ticking was much louder when it got up to 185+ cylinder head temp. Drove it for a day and there was really no improvement.

Purchased ceratec from amazon. Put one bottle in and it was instantaneous. NO tick. I'm only on day 1, however, so we'll see!

Side note - it broke my heart (and wallet) to drain $60 worth of PUP and ultra guard filter, but I needed to know if using ford spec stuff would make a difference. When I do my next oil change (probably 5k-6k), I will be going back to PUP, but will probably continue with the motorcraft filter. I will run it and see if the tick comes back (just to see), but regardless will definitely be adding ceratec again for peace of mind.

Sucks that we have to deal with this and Ford has taken the stance that it's normal. For me, it's not even worth going to the dealer to fight that uphill battle, unless the ceratec stops doing it's job and the tick comes back. I plan on doing a whipple within a year, so I need to ensure my motor is solid before I do.

I've been running a Roush Phase 1 blower for over a year with the tick, and all has been good while using Ceratec. Tick has not returned since I started using it. Hopefully the same for you!

 

[TheLion70x77]

I've had a mild case of the BBQ tick since I got my PP GT certified used with only 5,600 miles on the clock. At the time it was bone stock except for a Corsa cat back exhaust and window tint from the previous owner. Dealer had changed the oil when it was traded in for a loaded Explorer by the previous owner. MC Semi-syn 5W-20 and FL-500S filter is what they used. Mine only does it when starting from a stop at low RPM's. I can clearly hear it when next to a sound barrier and with the window down but otherwise it's not loud enough to detect. TriboTEX fixed even that BBQ condition after I applied it at 21k miles, now at 30k miles and 2 oil changes later...until I switched over from MC Semi-syn 5W-20 / FL-500S to PUP 5W-30 / FP FL820 just recently. BBQ Tick was back and TriboTEX only had 9k miles on it since application, so there's no way it's worn off given it's service life is around 40k and my fuel mileage has not gone back down since I applied it. But then just a hundred miles of use on PUP 5W-30 / FL820 and it went away again and is the least clanky it has ever been. Actually sounds somewhat normal instead of clattery.

So mine went back to ticking even with TriboTEX just with an oil change from one brand to another and from one viscosity to another, but then went away after a very short amount of driving. I've experienced no drive ability issues with the car since I've had it, before or after the Power Pack 2 was installed or before or after TriboTEX. I run it very hard on a regular basis with a Power Pack 2, Corsa Sport cat back exhaust, TriboTEX, VelossTeck Ram Air Duct and a slew of suspension mods in road race fashion (extended high RPM uses mostly in 3rd and 4th). It's been on a steady diet of MC, M1 and PUP 5W-20's with the FL-500S filter and just this last oil changed switched over to PUP 5W-30 which actually has a better CC viscosity than MC 5W-20...even though it's a 30 weight. I've actually seen a mild increase in fuel economy over MC 5W-20 despite going up one hot viscosity grade...which shows that the additive package and quality of the base oil as a whole matters more for efficiency than just raw viscosity. Some times, in rare situations you can have your cake and eat it too :-).

Although I am a bit pissed at Ford right now, my slave cylinder let go just this past Monday, even though it's been deemed a warranty repair under my 100k/7yr certified used extended power train warranty, it's at the dealer with the transmission on the ground and I'm not able to drive it until they finish the repairs...but hey, at least the engine runs great

 

[GT Pony]

So mine went back to ticking even with TriboTEX just with an oil change from one brand to another and from one viscosity to another, but then went away after a very short amount of driving.

Does TriboTEX claim the treatment lasts xyz miles after it's dumped from the sump like LiquiMoly claims with their Ceratec?

 

[Condor1970]

Does TriboTEX claim the treatment lasts xyz miles after it's dumped from the sump like LiquiMoly claims with their Ceratec?

Yes, they both do. However, Tribotex is known for having the highest level of adherence to internal components for up to 50,000 miles, and the highest level of lubricity compared to Ceratec. This is another reason I tend to think the tick isn't really a mechanical problem, but instead an oil issue.

Tribotex is basically the best of the best. If it doesn't keep the noise away, even after immediately changing the oil, then something else must be causing the issue, imo.

 

[GT Pony]

Yes, they both do. However, Tribotex is known for having the highest level of adherence to internal components for up to 50,000 miles, and the highest level of lubricity compared to Ceratec. This is another reason I tend to think the tick isn't really a mechanical problem, but instead an oil issue.

Tribotex is basically the best of the best. If it doesn't keep the noise away, even after immediately changing the oil, then something else must be causing the issue, imo.

https://www.tribotex.com - "The coating is smart and only forms on metal bearing surfaces."

Not so sure what that means exactly ... any two parts that rub on each other? Guess so.

Still doesn't explain why typewriter ticking engines had verified rod side clearance measurements twice the max factory clearance spec. We need more rod side clearance measurement data. Would be interesting if every ticker had the measurement done to see more proof or not. I'm still on that side of the fence until more proof shows otherwise.

 

[Condor1970]

https://www.tribotex.com - "The coating is smart and only forms on metal bearing surfaces."

Not so sure what that means exactly ... any two parts that rub on each other? Guess so.

Still doesn't explain why typewriter ticking engines had verified rod side clearance measurements twice the max factory clearance spec. We need more rod side clearance measurement data. Would be interesting if every ticker had the measurement done to see more proof or not. I'm still on that side of the fence until more proof shows otherwise.

It's definitely good to get that data. However, they don't necessarily measure that in the shop, and if they do an engine swap, it gets sent off to Ford where we never hear of it again. Now that it's considered "normal", we may never know. At least not until several people who have a bad tick pulls the oil pan and tinkers around in there to create a baseline of data.

 

[Jetnoise]

https://www.tribotex.com - "The coating is smart and only forms on metal bearing surfaces."

Not so sure what that means exactly ... any two parts that rub on each other? Guess so.

Still doesn't explain why typewriter ticking engines had verified rod side clearance measurements twice the max factory clearance spec. We need more rod side clearance measurement data. Would be interesting if every ticker had the measurement done to see more proof or not. I'm still on that side of the fence until more proof shows otherwise.

With the number of tick'rs out there....why can't your side clearance concerns be a separate issue al together?

 

[GT Pony]

With the number of tick'rs out there....why can't your side clearance concerns be a separate issue al together?

Guys who got a short block under warranty had the ticking cured, and then running the same oil as before (typically Motorcraft 5W-20 synthetic blend). Some guys got multiple short block replacements because the previous short blocks didn't fix the ticking ... but we really don't know if the rod side clearances were within spec or not on the replacement short blocks because they come with an oil pan and shops aren't going to remove the oil pan on a brand new short block unless the customer said "do so, and I'll pay for the extra labor". So the collection of rod side clearances is magically hard to get it seems.

Info says that excessive rod side clearance can indeed cause abnormal engine noises. Example: https://turbobuick.com/threads/rod-side-clearances.150914/

Everything I've researched and read about "oil cavitation" as being the cause says the typewriter tick acts opposite of what oil cavitation would cause. Read the Section "5. Conclusions" on the last page: http://or.nsfc.gov.cn/bitstream/00001903-5/477106/1/1000013598568.pdf

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