Do you regret choosing your power adder?

[Wolfys11]

I presumed that the whipples iat was read from the Maf the same as the centri kits, not really thinking about it properly and so I believed what we were discussing was a fair comparison.

However, it's far from that.

The whipples iat is taken from a mapt sensor, not really in the airflow like the Maf. but hidden at the back of the plenum, almost shielded from the air flow so that's a huge difference in comparable readings.

It's also a completely different sensor so will have a different calibration. There's loads on this forum about the accuracy and refresh rate of whipples mapt sensor, look for yourself.

see the photo of the whipple gen 5, aluminium is a great conductor, there's nothing to stop the hot side of the supercharger core and engine from heating all of the walls of the plenum area and ports. Completely unlike a centri kit that using the naturally insulating plastic manifold.

So comparing iat on VCM scanner between centi and Whipple is far from accurate.

I haven't had chance to do a data log or collect data on the Paxton 2200sl, but I did 350 miles on the motorway yesterday with 10 seconds blasts and the iat on the dash (which is accurately displayed on a centri as read by the Maf) didnt ever go more than 6 degrees c, mostly 2 degrees while cruising above ambient of 13 degrees. And the temps displayed on dash from a centri setup are accurate, read by the Maf at a fast data rate and taken from the mid airflow position, post intercooler and not influenced like the whipples will be from hiding in the corner of the plenum. So Engineer mike, I think you can see for yourself that your collected data is shite and completely unreliable. But to be fair to you, very difficult to get accurate data from the whipples system so not your fault.

If it were me, I'd have a sensor on the coolant temperature for the charge cooler. Then add 10- 20 degrees c on top of that because it's scientifically impossible for your boost temps to be lower than the coolant temperature and in the order of atleast +20c. (unless you have a killer chiller attached to the A/c pump.
That's going to give you a clearer idea of what's really going in to the cylinder.

This was the type of issue i was talking about, not saying the whipple is 100% not the better thermal effeciency option, but the data definitely is skewed for some reason or another which is why a little more context was needed

i dont think any whipple setup will have a ait sensor unless someone here custom puts one in as its hard to get that data after the intercooler in a whipple or any pd for that matter

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[80FoxCoupe]

This was the type of issue i was talking about, not saying the whipple is 100% not the better thermal effeciency option, but the data definitely is skewed for some reason or another which is why a little more context was needed

i dont think any whipple setup will have a ait sensor unless someone here custom puts one in as its hard to get that data after the intercooler in a whipple or any pd for that matter

Iat sensor relocation, it's a thing.

 

[Forestlump]

Iat sensor relocation, it's a thing.

yes it's a thing, but not accurate how they do it. You don't need to be a genius to see that.

 

[cbrtrx]

All power adders have pros and cons. That said I'm very happy with mine for what I do with it.

 

[Forestlump]

This was the type of issue i was talking about, not saying the whipple is 100% not the better thermal effeciency option, but the data definitely is skewed for some reason or another which is why a little more context was needed

i dont think any whipple setup will have a ait sensor unless someone here custom puts one in as its hard to get that data after the intercooler in a whipple or any pd for that matter

That's it, it's just too difficult to put a sensor in the intake port, that's the only place you will get reliable data from a Whipple.

Noone's going to want it sticking in to the airflow and causing a restriction to one cylinder. That's the only way to really know.

Sorry I didn't catch on sooner, I read your replies about the accuracy of the data logs and I overlooked it, thinking it was from the Maf. But on the pd setup the Maf is pre supercharger so is completely blind to what's really going on.

Its been bugging me for a few days so I had to get it straight in my own mind.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

yes it's a thing, but not accurate how they do it. You don't need to be a genius to see that.

Post up your 10sec wide open throttle data log.

 

[engineermike]

The amount of misinformation in this thread is astounding.

The Whipple kit uses a stock gt500 MAT sensor mounted near the inlet to the #4 intake port. It’s surrounded by hot metal so if anything it reads high just from radiant heat. It catches the air temp after the intercooler the instant before it enters the cylinder. There is a separate transfer function in the calibration. As I mentioned earlier, I had my doubts as well so I actually tested this sensor using an ice bath all the way to boiling water, and cross checked the static log data to a thermometer. I can post up the data correlation. If anyone cares but it was very accurate below about 140. Error got worse above that but I almost never see temps that high.

If anything the positioning of the centrif iat in the maf is reading cooler than actual because the air picks up heat from the manifold that goes unmeasured. It would read hotter if it were positioned at the intake port like Whipple does.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

The amount of misinformation in this thread is astounding.

The Whipple kit uses a stock gt500 MAT sensor mounted near the inlet to the #4 intake port. It’s surrounded by hot metal solid anything it reads high just from radiation. There is a separate transfer function in the calibration. As I mentioned earlier, I had my doubts as well so I actually tested this sensor using an ice bath all the way to boiling water, and cross checked the static log data to a thermometer. I can post up the data correlation. If anyone cares but it was very accurate below about 140. Error got worse above that but I almost never see temps that high.

If you posted the data you collected on the iat sensor, nobody would believe it. Those that poke holes in the data are the very ones that don't have any.

 

[Wolfys11]

If you posted the data you collected on the iat sensor, nobody would believe it. Those that poke holes in the data are the very ones that don't have any.

Im working, as soon as i get on my laptop that has an old log, il check myself what my data says

i dont have anything to prove to anyone so i dont have these things handy

 

[shogun32]

i dont have anything to prove to anyone so i dont have these things handy

weak. so weak...

https://xkcd.com/386/

 

[engineermike]

I presumed that the whipples iat was read from the Maf the same as the centri kits, not really thinking about it properly and so I believed what we were discussing was a fair comparison.

However, it's far from that.

The whipples iat is taken from a mapt sensor, not really in the airflow like the Maf. but hidden at the back of the plenum, almost shielded from the air flow so that's a huge difference in comparable readings.

It's also a completely different sensor so will have a different calibration. There's loads on this forum about the accuracy and refresh rate of whipples mapt sensor, look for yourself...So Engineer mike, I think you can see for yourself that your collected data is shite and completely unreliable. But to be fair to you, very difficult to get accurate data from the whipples system so not your fault.

You've proven that you and wolfys11 have no idea how the whipple measures charge temp, but you agree on one thing....it's definitely wrong. Never mind that I have GT500 logs and @Exploded_Muffin muffin posted a GT500 log that agreed even though the GT500 intercooler is inferior to the GenV whipple. Never mind that I tested my sensor vs two independent sources and offered to supply the data to show its accurate. And never mind the procharger and multiple ESS (100mm and 125 mm) logs that were posted that also show the same rapid rise. All that is crap and the dashboard gauge of unknown source and no log is more reliable.

And to be clear, myself, exploded muffin, cbrtrx, 80foxcoupe, mejohn, and more, many of which own centrifs, will instantly know if your data is correct because we've all seen way too many data logs to be fooled by bad data. Logging the wrong IAT is very common and easy to spot once you've reviewed a few thousand logs.

If it were me, I'd have a sensor on the coolant temperature for the charge cooler. Then add 10- 20 degrees c on top of that because it's scientifically impossible for your boost temps to be lower than the coolant temperature and in the order of atleast +20c.

This is very wrong. The boost temps at the outlet of the dual-pass counter-flow intercooler are very close to unison (though not inverted, for obvious reasons)...Roush notwithstanding.

 

[Wolfys11]

weak. so weak...

https://xkcd.com/386/

Asked the other guys to give context to their dyno/log information, like on the dyno or street, what type of mods, do we have ice on these pulls, etc.

zero response. Kinda weak to be crying i didnt give my log out

 

[Wolfys11]

You've proven that you and wolfys11 have no idea how the whipple measures charge temp, but you agree on one thing....it's definitely wrong. Never mind that I have GT500 logs and @Exploded_Muffin muffin posted a GT500 log that agreed even though the GT500 intercooler is inferior to the GenV whipple. Never mind that I tested my sensor vs two independent sources and offered to supply the data to show its accurate. And never mind the procharger and multiple ESS (100mm and 125 mm) logs that were posted that also show the same rapid rise. All that is crap and the dashboard gauge of unknown source and no log is more reliable.

And to be clear, myself, exploded muffin, cbrtrx, 80foxcoupe, mejohn, and more, many of which own centrifs, will instantly know if your data is correct because we've all seen way too many data logs to be fooled by bad data. Logging the wrong IAT is very common and easy to spot once you've reviewed a few thousand logs.



This is very wrong. The boost temps at the outlet of the dual-pass counter-flow intercooler are very close to unison (though not inverted, for obvious reasons)...Roush notwithstanding.

If we are thinking of the same gt500 log you are referencing, we talked about a 900whp centri using a g3 intercooler, vs a gt500 with an upgraded water intercooler, i dont think we are be comparing apples to apples in this exact comparison

if the 900whp centri with a g3 intercooler runs 30 degrees up, then its entirely plausible my 680whp ish setup on a g4 intercooler can keep temps within 10 degrees, no?

 

[cbrtrx]

If we are thinking of the same gt500 log you are referencing, we talked about a 900whp centri using a g3 intercooler, vs a gt500 with an upgraded water intercooler, i dont think we are be comparing apples to apples in this exact comparison

if the 900whp centri with a g3 intercooler runs 30 degrees up, then its entirely plausible my 680whp ish setup on a g4 intercooler can keep temps within 10 degrees, no?

Within 10 degrees for how long? I have logs from every single centrifugal available for these cars including the different intercooler options. Can a 680 wheel g3 car with g4 intercooler stay within 10 degrees of ambient for about 2 to 2.5 seconds on an actual log, sure. Most g3/g4 cars I still see a 40+ degree increase after a 9 second 1/4 mile.

I'm a supporter of centris on many applications, I have one on my own car.

 

[robvas]

I had a non-intercooled Paxton setup on a Cobra a long time ago...that boy got hot! 260 degrees I think was the highest I ever saw

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