Rationale for choosing Ecoboost HPP over GT?

[shogun32]

How does Chevy do it with the corvette then by not selling super cheap models?

have you seen Corvette buyers? They are extremely self-selecting and not at all a representative cross-section of society. Mustang (and Charger/Challenger, Camaro), while obviously a niche unto itself is intended to and designed to appeal across the board to all 'common' income and age groups.

BMW, Merc, Caddy, Audi also offer cheap(er) I4 models and I6/V6+ for the well heeled. If The only 3 series you could buy was the full-zoot M, there would be no 3. If audi only sold the S-trim, there would be no car at all since the 'A' is what pays the bills.

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[shogun32]

I can't seem to find any recent take rate for the engines, do you have any data that you were referencing that you can share?

it was 2:1 in favor of EB last I remember. In GT-land the trans were (for a while anyway) approx 1:1 but 2020+ that may have changed. In EB it was overwhelming 10AT over 6MT.

Don't ask for citation, I don't remember/can't find it again.

 

[junits15]

actually V8 and twin-turbo 3.5L out of the F150.

I've owned 3 different EB (2019, 20, 22) all the while also simultaneously owning a GT (300A), SS/1LE and Audi S5 (v8, AWD, 6MT). The EB is playful and you can beat on it at semi-sane speeds unlike the big boys where you're rapidly into jail time.

I average about 25MPG out of the EB (3.31 gears), 20-21 out of the GT (3.73) so fuel savings is laughable. The most fun EB is 15-17 with the MT82D5 trans. It's a riot. The D4 really pisses in the Wheaties.

The biggest problem with the EB is Ford's fuel-maps and the 'racket' is not at all pleasant compared to what you get from Honda or VW. The EB/HPP though is a very stiff $$$ upgrade that is IMO very hard to defend. The tuning is just as much crap as on the standard EB, slightly bigger turbo not-withstanding.

The first thing to buy with an EB is a tune by someone who knows WTH they're doing. And it's not Ford. With a tune the standard EB pulls quite well to redline. Yes a bigger turbo will help either engine and they are fairly cheap. Next is intercooler.

For street duty that's all you need in the engine compartment. Add all the chassis and suspension fixes when you get a chance.

I find myself wishing that we had got a TTV6 often, the tuning potential on those is absolutely mental.

Its a much lower barrier to entry, a tune intercooler and some ethanol can get you the same HP as a FBO 5.0 on 93. Lighter too, and potential for greater torque. Plus I think turbos are cool

 

[Oakley]

I was curious if anyone could explain the rationale for why someone would choose an Ecoboost HPP over a GT when the HPP appears to cost more than the GT yet the performance of the HPP seems to be much lower than the GT?

What am I missing?

Thanks.

i was on the fence for a while. so, i drove one and it was rad. the only reason i didn't get it was the ecoboost motor doesn't have dual injectors per cylinder and i was concerned about the cleaning those valves and stuff.

if you got the options of the hpp you're 10K over whatever the GT model is. they come with active exhaust, magneride, all the fixings.

if i was confident the motor would be trouble free and could have found a 6spd to drive i might have ordered one... but i love my PP1 GT and there ain't no goin back.

 

[K4fxd]

Its a much lower barrier to entry, a tune intercooler and some ethanol can get you the same HP as a FBO 5.0 on 93. Lighter too, and potential for greater torque.

And that is why Ford did not put that engine in the mustang. I wish Ford put twin turbos on the coyote.

 

[ShadesOfBloo]

I find myself wishing that we had got a TTV6 often...

...It's a much lower barrier to entry, a tune intercooler and some ethanol can get you the same HP as a FBO 5.0 on 93. Lighter too, and potential for greater torque. Plus, I think turbos are cool

That's likely why it's not available. Something that could overlap the V8s performance that easily would cut into V8 sales. In a way, economics and the performance overlap made Ford choose between those 2 drivetrains.

 

[shogun32]

economics and the performance overlap made Ford choose between those 2 drivetrains.

granted if Mustang sold 700,000 units/yr I'm sure the bean counters would allow the EB, 2.7TT, 3.5TT and 5.0 to be on a level playing field and give a damn if the Coyote might get "overshadowed".

 

[Obsidian]

I’m sure we will reach a v6 TT hybrid eventually as the restrictions get larger. Look at what happened to the tundra.

 

[junits15]

That's likely why it's not available. Something that could overlap the V8s performance that easily would cut into V8 sales. In a way, economics and the performance overlap made Ford choose between those 2 drivetrains.

100% its too close to the V8, but I still want it lol

Now you got me thinking about an easy 500WHP lmao, if only it was so simple

 

[Cobra Jet]

I think some of the purchasing decision is based on cost if the Buyer is wanting to buy an S550 that is a PP and is equipped with the handling package as well.

The price difference between a EB HPP and a GT PP1 with all of the same PP equipment, handling package AND other matching options is an easy $10k +/- delta depending on geographic location. That's a big delta for some to getting a nicely equipped S550 with "factory goodies".

Also some EB owners have had (or still do have) a V8 Mustang in their collection; so they're really not missing the V8 aspects if also still owning an additional vehicle with a V8.

Choice is personal preference, but there's nothing wrong with either platform, in the end it's an S550 and that's what we're all here for anyway...

This thread would have the same results if it were titled:
Rationale for choosing GT500 over GT350?

 

[Q Tip]

I owned a 15 EB pp and now own an 18 10spd pp1 GT. The eb is a sports car and the GT is a muscle car.

 

[Onewolf]

I can understand not wanting the V8. I just traded in my 2022 GT Premium Coupe MT6 for a 2023 Ecoboost Premium Convertible MT6. The convertible is the same car I ordered and then canceled after I bought the GT coupe (Dealer kept the order alive after I canceled). However after 4 months with the GT coupe I decided I really wanted a convertible and I am not a fan of the obnoxiously loud GT exhaust.

So far I have concluded the stock Ecoboost has noticeably better handling than the stock GT with regards to push/understeer. And the convertible is much more enjoyable to drive on the twisty roads here in east TN.

 

[Crew4991]

Yeah I'm pretty sure that's not the case. If anything, the split is pretty even...but EB sales definitely do not "vastly" outnumber V8 sales.

Agreed, I would suspect having the 4 cyl and the 8 cyl has something more to do with EPA emissions and fuel economy restrictions.

 

[TrueBlue22]

I own both a 5.0L (2011) and a 2.3L HPP (2022).

For the level of features (Premium trim, B&O, handling package, MangeRide dampers, active exhaust, Brembo brakes, Torsen diff, etc., etc.), the HPP undercuts the price of an equally-optioned 5.0L by a good $12K-$15K, which is a not insignificant difference.

My new 2.3L HPP is faster than my 2011 5.0L. That might not be true for a current 5.0L A10, but what's 3.9sec 0-60 vs. 4.5sec 0-60 worth to you? It wasn't worth it for me, but others are welcome to make their own choice. I don't drag race or track my cars, so theoretical performance numbers don't mean much to me. I go by feel and fun factor. The HPP ain't slow. A Base 6spd GT is not faster than an HPP A10.

The 2.3L HPP handling is sublime, and F/R weight balance is near 50-50. The HPP feels like a sharp-edge scalpel, whereas the 5.0L feels a bit like a blunt instrument (my opinion, others may disagree). The 5.0L feels somewhat nose-heavy to me.

5.0L definitely sounds better - there's nothing like a Coyote at full song. The HPP sounds...different. It's definitely no V8, but it does sound far better than the regular 2.3L. The HPP barks loud enough that my wife and neighbors hate it. Thank God for Quiet Start!

The 2.3L gets vastly better gas mileage than the V8. I get ~23mpg around town and up to 28-30mpg highway. Given that the 2.3L runs best on premium fuel, and premium is stupid expensive these days, fuel economy was a factor in my purchase decision.

I live in a cold-weather state where summer tires make zero sense, and I also prefer a "square" setup to permit regular tire rotations, so a GT with handling package and staggered tires didn't work for my needs.

I paid $45,250 out the door for my fully loaded HPP after taxes, fees, and all discounts. Sure, I could have gotten a Base GT for the same money, or even less, but I'm not interested in the low-rent interior and skinny 235/50R18 tires. I just priced out an equally-optioned GT Premium with Handling Pack/MangeRide/etc: $60,000. At that point, I'd just get a Mach 1, but then I'm $15-$20K over what I paid.

BUT - having said all this, here's the bottom line: everyone should buy what THEY want, not what someone else's opinion is saying. If you can't live without a V8, get the GT - the 5.0L is amazing. If you're into turbos, great - get a 2.3L. If you want something a bit more-high-strung and unique, get the HPP - it is an evil beast of an engine. If you want the automotive equivalent of a nuke detonating in your driveway, then the GT500 is your choice. If the lure of an >8000rpm screamer sounds enticing, a previously-owned GT350 is always a fun choice.

I've driven all of them. Each version has its own merits and downsides. Pick the one that checks all the right boxes for YOU, not someone else.

 

[Cobra Jet]

I own both a 5.0L (2011) and a 2.3L HPP (2022).

For the level of features (Premium trim, B&O, handling package, MangeRide dampers, active exhaust, Brembo brakes, Torsen diff, etc., etc.), the HPP undercuts the price of an equally-optioned 5.0L by a good $12K-$15K, which is a not insignificant difference.

My new 2.3L HPP is faster than my 2011 5.0L. That might not be true for a current 5.0L A10, but what's 3.9sec 0-60 vs. 4.5sec 0-60 worth to you? It wasn't worth it for me, but others are welcome to make their own choice. I don't drag race or track my cars, so theoretical performance numbers don't mean much to me. I go by feel and fun factor. The HPP ain't slow. A Base 6spd GT is not faster than an HPP A10.

The 2.3L HPP handling is sublime, and F/R weight balance is near 50-50. The HPP feels like a sharp-edge scalpel, whereas the 5.0L feels a bit like a blunt instrument (my opinion, others may disagree). The 5.0L feels somewhat nose-heavy to me.

5.0L definitely sounds better - there's nothing like a Coyote at full song. The HPP sounds...different. It's definitely no V8, but it does sound far better than the regular 2.3L. The HPP barks loud enough that my wife and neighbors hate it. Thank God for Quiet Start!

The 2.3L gets vastly better gas mileage than the V8. I get ~23mpg around town and up to 28-30mpg highway. Given that the 2.3L runs best on premium fuel, and premium is stupid expensive these days, fuel economy was a factor in my purchase decision.

I live in a cold-weather state where summer tires make zero sense, and I also prefer a "square" setup to permit regular tire rotations, so a GT with handling package and staggered tires didn't work for my needs.

I paid $45,250 out the door for my fully loaded HPP after taxes, fees, and all discounts. Sure, I could have gotten a Base GT for the same money, or even less, but I'm not interested in the low-rent interior and skinny 235/50R18 tires. I just priced out an equally-optioned GT Premium with Handling Pack/MangeRide/etc: $60,000. At that point, I'd just get a Mach 1, but then I'm $15-$20K over what I paid.

BUT - having said all this, here's the bottom line: everyone should buy what THEY want, not what someone else's opinion is saying. If you can't live without a V8, get the GT - the 5.0L is amazing. If you're into turbos, great - get a 2.3L. If you want something a bit more-high-strung and unique, get the HPP - it is an evil beast of an engine. If you want the automotive equivalent of a nuke detonating in your driveway, then the GT500 is your choice. If the lure of an >8000rpm screamer sounds enticing, a previously-owned GT350 is always a fun choice.

I've driven all of them. Each version has its own merits and downsides. Pick the one that checks all the right boxes for YOU, not someone else.

Great synopsis! Spot on to what I was saying too about getting to similarly equipped S550's and how there is a very large price delta for essentially all of the same features/options on the same body shell/ chassis - minus the engine.

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