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Why the Mach1 is a rip off

wimbrow

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The rationalization of every dollar sounds funny considering how much and fast cars lose value in general. It literally is wasted money and in that sense you are free to waste them however you like most. No-one can critizice your choice. Good luck persuading people to buy ZL1 in a Mustang forum :giggle:

Camaro looks nice, but I wouldn't want it, even if it was sold here in Europe, which it isn't. Mustang looks lot better to me both outside and inside.
camaro convertible is nice. you can see!
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Siege

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It’s available -from the GT350 .
Used ones come up for sale from time to time.
They typical go for $2K.
The benefit to the Tremec in the Mach1 is being able to retain the factory rev matching making it a complete drop in replacement for the newer cars.
 

garagelogic

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I originally wanted to upgrade from my 2018 A10 GT Premium (with PP1, MagneRide, Safe and smart) to a 2019 Corvette Z06, but I wanted back seats for my kids. I test drove a ZL1 and the rest is history: custom ordered...built...and as of Tuesday this week, loaded onto a train for transport. Contrary to most people's belief, the ZL1 has a comfortable ride due to the magnetic dampers (The ZLE is a stiffer ride). The ZL1's visibility isn't bad with properly adjusted mirrors. And the difference in cost ($3k) includes gas guzzler. If you drove a ZL1 you probably wouldn't care about the smaller trunk. I'm not sure how the Mach 1 is any more usable in the winter than the ZL1, either.

I used to say the same things: "visibility is bad, trunk is small, etc., etc.". Then I drove one and you realize that stuff is overblown and the ZL1 is just a monster (a comfortable one, at that).

I get personal choices, to each their own. But, only $3k more for a much better performance car (comparably equipped) means the Mach 1 needs to have other attributes to bring value - for some, the name and larger trunk (yippee!) are enough. But, most likely, those people haven't driven a ZL1!

Looks are subjective and I think the ZL1 looks awesome. This is hardly an "ugly" car by most common definitions:
Can you please stop comparing Chevrolet's top-of-the-line Camaro trim with the Mach 1? They are not direct competitors from a performance standpoint. I sincerely hope (since you ordered one) that you are going to enjoy the car more than any Mustang you could have bought in the same price range, but stop trying to convince everyone here that if they would just drive one, they would be as smitten/impressed as you are. I have driven both the ZL1 and the ZL1 1LE trim levels and I still have no interest in either from an ownership standpoint.
 

ChitownStang

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Can you please stop comparing Chevrolet's top-of-the-line Camaro trim with the Mach 1? They are not direct competitors from a performance standpoint. I sincerely hope (since you ordered one) that you are going to enjoy the car more than any Mustang you could have bought in the same price range, but stop trying to convince everyone here that if they would just drive one, they would be as smitten/impressed as you are. I have driven both the ZL1 and the ZL1 1LE trim levels and I still have no interest in either from an ownership standpoint.
Agreed, and the price to put winter tires on there plus the $2600 gas guzzler.
No bikes or golf clubs going through that opening
 

GreenS550

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Ford is 5 years late delivering what GM did back in 2016 for track readiness and GM did it for peanuts (45k-50k MSRP) whereas the Mach1 comes out to 57K and up. If GM can keep their cost of living rises to 2%/yr what's wrong at Ford that they think they need/justify 5-13%?
Sales of Mustang VS Camaro:
Sales Results - USA - Camaro, Challenger, Mustang - 2020
YearJanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDecTotal
Camaro2,3952,3952,3952,2252,2252,2252,7892,7892,7892,5162,5162,51629,775
Challenger4,0464,0464,0463,2933,2933,2935,4445,4445,4444,8684,8684,86852,955
Mustang6,0236,0236,0235,2395,2395,2394,6174,6174,6174,3994,1194,93561,090

https://www.motor1.com/news/464441/pony-car-sales-2020/


It would appear, my friend you are in the minority.

The fact is the Camaro is a piece of crap.


Read more: http://motrolix.com/automotive-sale...rd-mustang-vs-dodge-challenger/#ixzz6nbPrZnAG
 

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I Bleed Ford Blue

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FreePenguin

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I am surprised by Camaro though and challenger ,the challengers I just don't like their big size.

mustang>Camaro>challenger.

but if I had to go by popularity, in my area, I see 10x more chargers than any other sport car. no one has mustangs much, its just dodge fans and camaros
 

Strokerswild

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Why do you think the color choices are so bad? They have the majority of those "pop" colors, minus a nice green or purple (either of which I'd be all about).

And were there people actually realistically expecting/hoping for the 5.2 to make it into the Mach 1? I don't think that was ever even on the table... but I did think a bit more power or a cheaper price were.
The Mach 1 color choices are boring unless you like bright red, orange, or yellow (I don't, I prefer to blend in). I have no desire for another black or white vehicle and prefer metallic paint, so that leaves the blue or silver. Either is nice but make me feel like I'm settling for something I don't necessarily desire. Beyond that there's not much in the Mustang paint department. Antimatter is basically black (bring back Kona!), and Carbonized Gray doesn't hold a candle to Magnetic (I've seen both on other vehicles, thumbs down), but you can't get either or Rapid Red, arguably the best color in the regular Mustang lineup, on the Mach 1. How cool would it be to see a modern take (i.e. more flip-flop to the metallic) on Gulfstream Aqua? It would look killer on the S550. While I'm dreaming, with a white interior. Drool.

The 5.2 was a rampant rumor prior to the official release, and it would have been easy for Ford to do (other than the whole certification thing). If you want to charge GT350 money, you better come swinging harder than the Bullitt engine. This alone would have been the clincher for me to buy.
 

Idaho2018GTPremium

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Can you please stop comparing Chevrolet's top-of-the-line Camaro trim with the Mach 1? They are not direct competitors from a performance standpoint. I sincerely hope (since you ordered one) that you are going to enjoy the car more than any Mustang you could have bought in the same price range, but stop trying to convince everyone here that if they would just drive one, they would be as smitten/impressed as you are. I have driven both the ZL1 and the ZL1 1LE trim levels and I still have no interest in either from an ownership standpoint.
This is the "Why the Mach 1 a rip off thread". I'm comparing them because they are in the same price range when optioned similarly yet aren't close to the same level of performance - that's why I think the Mach 1 is a "rip off". Would you rather I compare a $63k Mach 1 to a $46k 1SS 1LE? They are likely more similar from a performance standpoint.

I realize the Mach 1 and ZL1 are not competitors from a performance standpoint, but that's Ford's fault for making a 480 hp Mach 1 cost nearly as much as a 650 hp ZL1. But, I know they'll sell because they are cool cars.

I think the Mach 1 is pretty awesome, and a very good looking car, it's just too expensive (and sorely needed more hp). I realize you don't like the Camaros, and that's fine, but cars are compared on price all the time. And I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy a ZL1, I was laying out why I think the Mach 1 is not a good deal IMO. Isn't that the point of this thread?

I love my 2018 Mustang GT (Premium), and it performs favorably against the 2SS that is in the same price class, and has all the other things you've mentioned that make it a better car (better looks, visibility, trunk, more safety tech., etc.).

Agreed, and the price to put winter tires on there plus the $2600 gas guzzler.
No bikes or golf clubs going through that opening
So you wouldn't put winter tires on a Mach 1 w/ handling package and Cup 2S? The $2,100 gas guzzler tax is INCLUDED in the $66k price of the A10 ZL1. I'll never put a bike through the trunk opening in my Mustang so that's a non issue for me. My Dad has a 5th gen Camaro SS with a similar laughable trunk opening as the 6th gen Camaro and practically lives at the golf course.

Sales of Mustang VS Camaro:
Sales Results - USA - Camaro, Challenger, Mustang - 2020
YearJanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDecTotal
Camaro2,3952,3952,3952,2252,2252,2252,7892,7892,7892,5162,5162,51629,775
Challenger4,0464,0464,0463,2933,2933,2935,4445,4445,4444,8684,8684,86852,955
Mustang6,0236,0236,0235,2395,2395,2394,6174,6174,6174,3994,1194,93561,090

https://www.motor1.com/news/464441/pony-car-sales-2020/

It would appear, my friend you are in the minority.

The fact is the Camaro is a piece of crap.

Read more: http://motrolix.com/automotive-sale...rd-mustang-vs-dodge-challenger/#ixzz6nbPrZnAG
Hilarious - the sales argument. Justin Bieber sells a lot of albums. That doesn't mean he's talented or a better musician than a band like The Bravery. The Camaro made some compromises (i.e. higher door sills, smaller trunk opening, less glass overall) for the sake of performance that the Mustang didn't, which in turn makes the Mustang a better choice for more people. I made that choice when I bought my 2018 GT. It's an awesome car. But there is no "fact" that the Camaro is a "piece of crap". That's your biased opinion.

I see the rarity of the Camaro ZL1 as a bonus. I'll likely be the only 6th gen ZL1 at my local Cars and Coffee when they start back up this spring, and the only ZL1 in my circle of "car friends". With my GT, I was one of maybe 20+ S197 and S550 Mustang GTs at an average C&C.
 
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EFI

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Can you please stop comparing Chevrolet's top-of-the-line Camaro trim with the Mach 1? They are not direct competitors from a performance standpoint.
But that's literally the whole point of this. As you noted, the 2 cars are NOT direct competitors from a performance standpoint, yet they are pretty much direct in terms of pricing. That's the issue most are having with this.
 

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ChitownStang

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This is the "Why the Mach 1 a rip off thread". I'm comparing them because they are in the same price range when optioned similarly yet aren't close to the same level of performance - that's why I think the Mach 1 is a "rip off". Would you rather I compare a $63k Mach 1 to a $46k 1SS 1LE? They are likely more similar from a performance standpoint.

I realize the Mach 1 and ZL1 are not competitors from a performance standpoint, but that's Ford's fault for making a 480 hp Mach 1 cost nearly as much as a 650 hp ZL1. But, I know they'll sell because they are cool cars.

I think the Mach 1 is pretty awesome, it's just too expensive (and needed more hp). I realize you don't like the Camaros, and that's fine, but cars are compared on price all the time. And I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy a ZL1, I was laying out why I think the Mach 1 is not a good deal IMO. Isn't that the point of this thread?

I love my 2018 Mustang GT (Premium), and it performs favorably against the 2SS that is in the same price class, and has all the other things you've mentioned that make it a better car (better looks, visibility, trunk, more safety tech., etc.).



So you wouldn't put winter tires on a Mach 1 w/ handling package and Cup 2S? The $2,100 gas guzzler tax is INCLUDED in the $66k price of the A10 ZL1. I'll never put a bike through the trunk opening in my Mustang so that's a non issue for me. My Dad has a 5th gen Camaro SS with a similar laughable trunk opening as the 6th gen Camaro and practically lives at the golf course.



Hilarious - the sales argument. Justin Bieber sells a lot of albums. That doesn't mean he's talented or a better musician than a band like The Bravery. The Camaro made some compromises (i.e. higher door sills, smaller trunk opening, less glass overall) for the sake of performance that the Mustang didn't, which in turn makes the Mustang a better choice for more people. I made that choice when I bought my 2018 GT. It's an awesome car. But there is no "fact" that the Camaro is a "piece of crap". That's your biased opinion.

I see the rarity of the Camaro ZL1 as a bonus. I'll likely be the only 6th gen ZL1 at my local Cars and Coffee when they start back up this spring, and the only ZL1 in my circle of "car friends". With my GT, I was one of maybe 20+ S197 and S550 Mustang GTs at an average C&C.
Dude, after taxes and all that, the ZL1 is considerably more than my Mach1.
I'm getting mine for $1k+ under MSRP
$57k for 10spd, Red Brembos , wheel upgrade. I will have a unique, numbered Mustang.
I'm totally good with that.
I sold my 15GT premium for $23k paid off 6 years later.
All good bro!
And your dad must leave his seat down all the time
 

GreenS550

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Ah. But opinions sell cars my friend. The comment that is the Mach One is a piece of crap is going to prove itself wrong and likely the Camaro will die. It's because people don't like the car it's not that complicated. Ford's in business to make money as well as make cool cars but money is first cool cars is second. They can't make anything if they go bankrupt like GM did. And it looks like they're starting to make the same crap they did before which drove them in the bankruptcy. I mean if you're a Chevy guy you'd be nuts not to buy the vette for another 15 grand. I repeat Camaro is a piece of crap. All I had to do is sit in one to know it was a pile of garbage. it means that the designers all the way from the top of the bottom never put the driving experience before the chassis. Can't see out of the stupid thing. It has an angry look on his face and rightly so because it's going to go to the trash heap of History.
 

shogun32

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I'm getting mine for $1k+ under MSRP
$57k for 10spd, Red Brembos , wheel upgrade.
and yet you could have spent 51k, whic is an easy 6 grand less and gotten yourself a 2SS/1LE-A10. The electronic 'racer' aids in the Camaro make Ford's look like Tinker Toys.

6 grand more for the same feature set (arguably poorer feature set) is the very definition of "rip-off".
 

ChitownStang

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and yet you could have spent 51k, whic is an easy 6 grand less and gotten yourself a 2SS/1LE-A10. The electronic 'racer' aids in the Camaro make Ford's look like Tinker Toys.

6 grand more for the same feature set (arguably poorer feature set) is the very definition of "rip-off".
So I got ripped off because I didn’t want to buy an ugly Camaro.. got it
And I should’ve lived with a car that didn’t meet my needs because the camaro is a better deal.. got it
Thanks
 

GreenS550

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There's a reason the Camaro is cheaper. Let's see if people can figure that out all by themselves.
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