Why the Mach1 is a rip off

[WildHorse]

So be it. But the argument that it the Mach1 is just a GT with a graphics package is disingenuous, at best.

It's a parts bin car that Ford cobbled together and slapped a stupid price onto. The GT350 is a much better car without the excess weight for the $$$.

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[shogun32]

he comment that is the Mach One is a piece of crap is going to prove itself wrong

certifiable crap sells all day long. And furthermore nobody is saying the Mach1 is 'crap', just that it's 5 years late, only NOW has finally achieved feature parity with the SS/1LE and is priced at a 12% premium.

Whether people choose one car over the other because of doing silly things like putting bicycles in trunks or supposed claustrophobia, such that they're willing to overlook the 'gouging' is a different matter altogether.

By the 1-dimentional standard of value, we should all be buying Kia Stingers.

 

[Charlemagne]

Does all cars with comparable qualities need to have the same price? Is BMW M4 a rip-off too by your logic? If it'll sell fine for this price then this price is well set by Ford and they'll make profit on it. Perhaps Camaro is cheaper because not many people want to buy it? How about that logic.

 

[GreenS550]

The Camaro will soon enter the trash heap of History.

 

[shogun32]

Does all cars with comparable qualities need to have the same price?

yes, within a narrow band, say 5%. Ford should be at the bottom of the range of the candidates because they are demonstrably the worst in materials, paint, fit, quality enforcement and reliability.

Is BMW M4 a rip-off too by your logic?

hell yes

I drive both my SS/1LE and Mustang(s) often and back to back. So I know the respective pro/con.

If in the future I were to 'reset' the garage and had to choose a Mach1 or SS/1LE I will always pick the Camaro until such time as the Mach comes down to under $3000 delta. That's my limit on premium to still buy the inferior car that I have to spend even more money fixing the bushings and frame.

If Ford Engineering ever decides to pull their head out of their ass and build the Mustang to be an actual sports car I might revisit that break point.

 

[garagelogic]

I see the rarity of the Camaro ZL1 as a bonus. I'll likely be the only 6th gen ZL1 at my local Cars and Coffee when they start back up this spring, and the only ZL1 in my circle of "car friends". With my GT, I was one of maybe 20+ S197 and S550 Mustang GTs at an average C&C.

Ah, the "rarity" factor, a favorite of the Camaro faithful. Because very few people buy them, they are more rare to see on the road. True, but not exactly a positive for the model.

So, like that BlaqWhole idiot over on Camaro6, you are arguing the performance of the dollar aspect. That is fair, but not the primary reason the majority of people buy their cars.

If you understand economies of scale, it is understandable that GM can offer a product with better performance for a similar price. The Mustang is Fords only performance car (sans Ford GT) built on a production line and the only vehicle that has its own platform. Therefore, development costs cannot be spread out. A lot of the content in the ZL1 came directly as a result of Cadillac/Corvette R&D. It's just a reality of where we are from a production standpoint.

Clearly, some in this thread make their buying decisions based primarily on how much performance you get for the dollar spent. Nothing wrong with that, as everyone want to spend money wisely. Again, you ordered a ZL1, so I can only hope that you are ultimately happy with it. Because YOU think it is a better buy, does not mean EVERYBODY will/should see it the same way.

I tracked my GT350R two times in 18 months. The rest of the time, it was my daily driver and took to the occasion gathering. That being the case, I could not care less that GM offered a Camaro trim that outperformed it, as it was just bragging rights.

These days, I look to buy a performance car I enjoy driving any day in any weather condition. Quite frankly, I have the most fun driving coyote-swapped fox coupe my son and I built a couple of years ago. Even with the suspension/chassis upgrades it has, I have no illusions that it will outperform any modern track-oriented offering from any manufacturer. And that;'s okay because it does not matter to ME. I suspect it will be the same for most Mach 1 owners.

 

[garagelogic]

But that's literally the whole point of this. As you noted, the 2 cars are NOT direct competitors from a performance standpoint, yet they are pretty much direct in terms of pricing. That's the issue most are having with this.

Really? Mostly I see people complaining that the Mach 1 only offers marginal increases over the Bullitt despite having a higher price tag. If anyone expected the Mach 1 trim to perform like or near a GT350 for less money had unrealistic expectations of Ford for where the car was being placed in the Mustang hierarchy.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Dude, after taxes and all that, the ZL1 is considerably more than my Mach1.
I'm getting mine for $1k+ under MSRP
$57k for 10spd, Red Brembos , wheel upgrade. I will have a unique, numbered Mustang.
I'm totally good with that.
I sold my 15GT premium for $23k paid off 6 years later.
All good bro!
And your dad must leave his seat down all the time

You're getting a sweet car, no doubt. I don't dislike the Mach 1. I think it looks awesome, esp. w/ the handling package wheels and the appearance package. Question: The Ford build site shows the upgraded Mach 1 wheels as a PP2 style wheel, but previously it showed a Mach 1 handling package style wheel, but narrower. Which is it going to be for the upgraded wheels?

I'm also getting my ZL1 for a good amount under msrp FWIW.

The Camaro will soon enter the trash heap of History.

And that makes you happy? Ford slowed progress on the GT and came out flat in 2010 with only 315 hp in the GT, while the 2010 Camaro SS had 426 hp thanks to continued GM small block development via the Corvette. Thanks mostly to the Camaro SS, we got the awesome Coyote in 2011.

That's why it's nickname is Crapmaro

Ever heard of Ford's nicknames? Found On Road Dead. Fix Or Repair Daily.

It's a parts bin car that Ford cobbled together and slapped a stupid price onto. The GT350 is a much better car without the excess weight for the $$$.

A GT350 weighs 3,800+ lbs, just like a PP1 GT. I'm guessing the Mach 1 will be 3,900 lbs with the additional coolers and fluids.

Does all cars with comparable qualities need to have the same price? Is BMW M4 a rip-off too by your logic? If it'll sell fine for this price then this price is well set by Ford and they'll make profit on it. Perhaps Camaro is cheaper because not many people want to buy it? How about that logic.

The BMW M4 has a higher quality interior and better fit and finish than both Ford and Chevy. And from a performance standpoint, it simply matches my GT PP1 w/ MagneRide, so yeah, it's sort of a rip-off if you're going for pure performance. Most M4 buyers probably want the additional refinement/quality, or whatever BMW has over Ford/Chevy.

 

[WildHorse]

A GT350 weighs 3,800+ lbs, just like a PP1 GT. I'm guessing the Mach 1 will be 3,900 lbs with the additional coolers and fluids.

I'm guessing 4067 lbs. Bet me haha.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Ah, the "rarity" factor, a favorite of the Camaro faithful. Because very few people buy them, they are more rare to see on the road. True, but not exactly a positive for the model.

So, like that BlaqWhole idiot over on Camaro6, you are arguing the performance of the dollar aspect. That is fair, but not the primary reason the majority of people buy their cars.

If you understand economies of scale, it is understandable that GM can offer a product with better performance for a similar price. The Mustang is Fords only performance car (sans Ford GT) built on a production line and the only vehicle that has its own platform. Therefore, development costs cannot be spread out. A lot of the content in the ZL1 came directly as a result of Cadillac/Corvette R&D. It's just a reality of where we are from a production standpoint.

Clearly, some in this thread make their buying decisions based primarily on how much performance you get for the dollar spent. Nothing wrong with that, as everyone want to spend money wisely. Again, you ordered a ZL1, so I can only hope that you are ultimately happy with it. Because YOU think it is a better buy, does not mean EVERYBODY will/should see it the same way.

I tracked my GT350R two times in 18 months. The rest of the time, it was my daily driver and took to the occasion gathering. That being the case, I could not care less that GM offered a Camaro trim that outperformed it, as it was just bragging rights.

These days, I look to buy a performance car I enjoy driving any day in any weather condition. Quite frankly, I have the most fun driving coyote-swapped fox coupe my son and I built a couple of years ago. Even with the suspension/chassis upgrades it has, I have no illusions that it will outperform any modern track-oriented offering from any manufacturer. And that;'s okay because it does not matter to ME. I suspect it will be the same for most Mach 1 owners.

This is a good post and I agree, everyone has their own reasons for buying a given car. The only thing I'll add is that the ZL1 is fully loaded, so I didn't buy just on the performance aspect, although that was a huge reason. But I never feel like my GT leaves me wanting from a creature comfort standpoint.

GM certainly has a large advantage with trickle down from the Corvette drivetrain, because GM will always develop high performance engines for that car, and the Camaro reaps the benefits.

 

[garagelogic]

and yet you could have spent 51k, whic is an easy 6 grand less and gotten yourself a 2SS/1LE-A10. The electronic 'racer' aids in the Camaro make Ford's look like Tinker Toys.

6 grand more for the same feature set (arguably poorer feature set) is the very definition of "rip-off".

Which is awesome, if your goal for the car is to regularly put it on a track. Otherwise, it's pretty much a "my-car-is-better-than-yours" conversation at C&C.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I'm guessing 4067 lbs. Bet me haha.

I'll take the under. That's GT500 CFTP weight!

 

[WildHorse]

That's GT500 CFTP weight!

Absolutely buddy haha.

 

[Meatball]

The Camaro is a great car with a slightly different take on a very similar theme to the Mustang. I think their sales are poor because they stuck with very similar styling in 2016 to the 2010-2015. I think it looks great but a little long in the tooth now. Should have taken inspiration from the 2nd gen in 2016.

 

[shogun32]

The Mustang is Fords only performance car (sans Ford GT) built on a production line and the only vehicle that has its own platform. Therefore, development costs cannot be spread out.

Ford has been building the "same" damn thing since 2011. The design was paid off long ago.

Yes, GM does better engineering for re-usability and I will readily concede that the Camaro benefits from this wisdom by recycling Caddy and Corvette technology. What's stopping Ford from following the same playbook?

I don't go to C&C to brag or preen about how 'rare' my car is/not. I go to look at (not so) cool cars, talk to interesting people and answer questions from fellow enthusiasts. Could care less if mine was one of a hundred there.

if your goal for the car is to regularly put it on a track

what possible other reason is there to buy a high-performance (pretending) car? Ok, they look 'cool'... Obviously we each piss huge money away on stupid crap that has no rational defense. That's the luxury of not having to dig up beetles and catch mice in the fields to have dinner tonight.

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