Should I do a Built Engine?

[tdstuart]

Picked up a twin turbo kit and motor is also blown. I want to build the motor but finally sat down and priced everything out and its making me rethink haha.

Little backstory,
Stock motor blew up due to my fualt with running the car with high fuel trims and engine went lean and detonated melting a piston.
Second engine was burning a ton of oil I didn't notice. Could be a combination of gapped rings and bad headstuds, possibly damaging the rings and causing excessive oil burning. Engine oil starved and spun a rod bearing.
My latest engine was a brand new gen 3 shortblock. Engine lasted about 25k miles, did a pull in first gear one day and the rod broke from the piston and smashed up the engine before throwing itself off the crank. Still no idea why the rod broke from the piston.

Ford gave me a new gen 3 shortblock. I want to build the engine, especially since I am going boost. Power goals right now are about 750 since I will be fuel system limited for the time being. I want to be able to turn to car up to 1200 if I do get a better fuel system.

I know people have had stock coyotes live at 750 and even at 1000. I know lots of people have done drop in pistons and lived at 1000+. The rod failure scares me as I'm not sure if the piston, rod, or if the wrist pin failed, and I don't want to throw in pistons if the rod is going to break.

As far as pricing goes im looking at about $4500-5000 to build the shortblock and some aditional stuff (heads are already cleaned up and repaired). This would include:
- Mahle Power Pak Pistons
- Callies Compstar Rods
- OPG
- Shop balancing & building
- Bearings
- Head Gaskets
- New Timing Chains/Phasers/Solenoids

Shop is quoting $400 for balance, $800 for short block assembly. If I didn't do the rods the crank wouldn't need balancing. I am confident I can assemble the shortblock, ive done it before, but since its aftermarket rods and pistons I am worried about bearing clearances and piston to wall clearances. I don't know how much money I would need to invest in tools to measure the clearances properly...

If I just did pistons I would have about $1200. Some other savings could come in reusing my vct phasers. They were brand new with my last build but I am worried about metal contamination. There was some metal in the oil, not bearing spun bad, but still metal. Reusing phasers could save me $500.

If I just did drop in pistons, reused phasers, and assembled myself I could be saving ~$2500.

What are your guys thoughts? Does labor seem high? Other options I am not thinking about? Should I maybe just send it stock and hopefully I have more money to blow on it when I want to turn it up? Any opinions appreciated!

Edit: Car is also getting a circle d converter

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[robvas]

Have you considered selling the gen 3 shortblock and just ordering a built shortblock or aluminator?

 

[tdstuart]

Have you considered selling the gen 3 shortblock and just ordering a built shortblock or aluminator?

Yes but as far as I know building this is cheaper. Rods+Pistons+Bearings+ shop build is like $3100. My shortblock is work like $3k resale? An aluminator is $6200.

Around the same price but my shortblock has a pan and opg housing.

 

[308 Cal. Bullitt]

Didn't see the 'More Munny Sonny' Bryant crankshaft, on the short-block parts list.

It's the American Express Card - of any eng build.

Don't leave the starting line without it.

kidding aside, (sorta),
sounds like your building a worthwhile improved short blk, vs stock.

 

[Timbuck]

Yes Maybe !!!
If you want any sort of reliable 1000 capable engine it’s worth doing. Your list is very similar to my sleeved gen2 build
my approach was due to the fact it was blown up , I might as well go the “full built“ rout and do it once and right the first time. that’s why I went the sleeved. For the $2000 extra I pretty much have a bulletproof motor for what ever I want to do with it.

for your turbo build , the engine is already new and I don’t see the point removing it at this time.

turbo’s are not as hard on engines so it will probably happy to live at 800+ for quite some time. ( that’s fukin quick) get the car and the turbo kit sorted and running nice , maybe a better fuel system to be able to turn it up a bit. keep saving for the day the motor does give up and then go an all out sleeved build on that block.

 

[tdstuart]

Yes Maybe !!!
If you want any sort of reliable 1000 capable engine it’s worth doing. Your list is very similar to my sleeved gen2 build
my approach was due to the fact it was blown up , I might as well go the “full built“ rout and do it once and right the first time. that’s why I went the sleeved. For the $2000 extra I pretty much have a bulletproof motor for what ever I want to do with it.

for your turbo build , the engine is already new and I don’t see the point removing it at this time.

turbo’s are not as hard on engines so it will probably happy to live at 800+ for quite some time. ( that’s fukin quick) get the car and the turbo kit sorted and running nice , maybe a better fuel system to be able to turn it up a bit. keep saving for the day the motor does give up and then go an all out sleeved build on that block.

Motor is currently out of the car, hence why I am thinking about building it!

 

[tdstuart]

I do have a gen2 block laying around. Sleeve is damaged, not sure if it could be bored out. I might checkout that option...

Might be cheaper to even get new sleeves on that block and use it and sell the gen3...

 

[Timbuck]

I do have a gen2 block laying around. Sleeve is damaged, not sure if it could be bored out. I might checkout that option...

Might be cheaper to even get new sleeves on that block and use it and sell the gen3...

I do have a gen2 block laying around. Sleeve is damaged, not sure if it could be bored out. I might checkout that option...

Might be cheaper to even get new sleeves on that block and use it and sell the gen3...

Opps. Sorry I missed that It was out.

yeah that’s a great option , I’d go that direction. You would end up with a sleeved gen2 and I’m sure It would be easy to sell the block you have now.

 

[Whitedevil95]

Whats your current fuel system situation?

 

[Wolfys11]

The prices you talk about are cheap
Just build it
Your turbo kit is going to be more expensive than your engine build by almost double
Especially for 1200hp

However if you are that budget limited, i wouldnt think about 1200whp as tranny, driveshaft, axles, suspension, brakes, etc etc etc are mandatory upgrades at that power level which will be closer to 30k invested than your 6k for an engine being too expensive for you

Im not trying to shame, just realistically steer you on the right path you can afford. Its better to be real and get something youll use today than pray youll maybe get something in tens of years which youll go to a new car by then

 

[tdstuart]

Whats your current fuel system situation?

Fuel system will be dw400 with a bap. Got gt500 injectors on order but they are backordered so may have to go a different direction.

I would like to run it on e85 but not sure how much power that could support on e85.

That will be my initial fuel system unless there are other simple things to increase fuel flow that I am not thinking of.

 

[engineermike]

@tdstuart the bap/dw400 will support a lot of fuel flow, probably almost double what the gt500 55’s will support. If it’s in the budget I’d bump them up to something like the fuel injector connection 1000/95s which I think are around $750.

That said, I’d spend a little time calibrating the low and high speed fuel pump pressure curves to match the dw400/bap output characteristics.

 

[tdstuart]

@tdstuart the bap/dw400 will support a lot of fuel flow, probably almost double what the gt500 55’s will support. If it’s in the budget I’d bump them up to something like the fuel injector connection 1000/95s which I think are around $750.

That said, I’d spend a little time optimizing the low and high speed fuel pump pressure curves to match the dw400/bap output characteristics.

Tuning wise I’m probably going to have to go with Lund or Rob. I still have a lot to learn, if I was staying n/a I would have tried to teach myself more without getting another tuner. I am hoping they will let me do e85 if I can hit atleast 650 with that setup.

I was looking at the gt500 as a bump over the lu47 and they are cheap af, like less than $100 a set. If you think to get 650whp with e85 I should get bigger injectors than I will probably go that route.

No more imrc so I will probably add a map sensor and fuel pressure sensor and hook up to my imrc

 

[engineermike]

The 55s will be tight at that power level on e85.

650 rwhp is about 700 chp. Thats about 70 lb/min airflow, which equates to 7 lb/min fuel flow at stoich on e85, or 9.3 lb/min at .75 lambda. 9.3 / 8 * 60 =69.75 lb/hr at 100% duty cycle or 78 lb/min at 90% duty cycle. I’m not sure if the gen2 has the 60% duty cycle limit that most can’t get past in the gen3. You’re going to have to run about 80 psi rail pressure to get the needed flow out of them.

 

[tdstuart]

The 55s will be tight at that power level on e85.

650 rwhp is about 700 chp. Thats about 70 lb/min airflow, which equates to 7 lb/min fuel flow at stoich on e85, or 9.3 lb/min at .75 lambda. 9.3 / 8 * 60 =69.75 lb/hr at 100% duty cycle or 78 lb/min at 90% duty cycle. I’m not sure if the gen2 has the 60% duty cycle limit that most can’t get past in the gen3. You’re going to have to run about 80 psi rail pressure to get the needed flow out of them.

Hmm may need bigger injectors then. Even on a very low wastegate spring I think it would be hard not to hit 650.

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