Camel City
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2022
- Threads
- 1
- Messages
- 3
- Reaction score
- 0
- Location
- Winston Salem, NC
- Vehicle(s)
- 2016 GT TT T56
- Thread starter
- #1
Hey guys, long time lurker, first time poster. I bought a 2016 GT with the Hellion top mount kit a couple of years ago, knowing that it needed a short block (low compression in cylinder 8, pretty sure it's a cracked ring land). The car is still drivable and runs pretty strong, but I'm finally getting around to pulling the engine and fixing it right. 48k miles on the car, roughly 25k with the turbo kit. It's a 6 speed, Tremec Magnum XL, subframe connectors, axles, driveshaft, it's built well.
I think I've read pretty much every short block, pistons, rods, etc thread on here, and I'm still not sure what direction I want to take. The previous owner got about 25k miles out of the gen 2 short block on 93 octane, so the cheapest and simplest route is to just get a Gen 3 short block and maybe gap the rings. I do plan to go with E85, it's fairly cheap and available in my area, so I'm not too worried about the higher compression. It has a Fore Innovation 2 pump system, not sure about pump sizes, and 95lb injectors. I don't have a specific power goal in mind, 800+ RWHP would be great, but I don't know how much past that the injectors would handle on E85.
Part of me really wants to buy the parts and assemble the short block myself. I think I would get a lot of satisfaction out of knowing that I did the work myself, and took the time to do it properly. I've never done it before, but I'm fairly technical and can read a manual. With the fairly cheap availability of machined blocks and components, my expectation is that I can take my time and bolt everything together myself, minus the crankshaft balancing. I have a family history of machinists and tool & die makers, so I understand clearances and precise measurements.
Now for the questions. The first one is on piston material. This is a street car, it might see some 1/8 mile passes every now and then, but my ultimate goal is reliable, reasonable power. I'd love an engine that can do another 50k+ miles without having to worry about it, and that seems to point me to 4032 forged pistons. I'd prefer to stay away from 2618 and the increased wear, noise, etc. The problem is that I've found almost no one that actually offers off the shelf 4032 pistons for a Gen 3 coyote. The only option I've found is DSS, and I haven't seen much feedback on those or folks that are running them. I emailed both Mahle and Manley since they previously made 4032 pistons for Coyotes, and they confirmed that they're not available for the Gen 3. Manley offered no explanation, and Mahle said there little demand, but feedback/requests could cause them to be available in the future.
I guess what I'm wondering is does anyone really know WHY there are so few options for 4032 pistons for the Gen 3 Coyotes? Is it just not that much of an upgrade over stock? Is there any issues with them and the PTWA cylinder walls? Are the 2618 options with advanced coatings "good enough" for a street car?
While I'm rambling, one thing I've also been looking at is going with the Predator block. For the cost, it seems like a good upgrade for not a ton of money, and I've found that Mahle does make the drop in "Voodoo" pistons in M142P that could be used. From my understanding the pin diameter is a bit smaller on these, so I'd need to run Voodoo specific rods, but rod length is the same. A boss crank would then put them just slightly lower in the bore (~.006" or there abouts), slightly lowering the compression. I'm pretty sure Olaosunt built something similar, or maybe the same thing. I haven't searched as hard to see if there are other piston options in the 3.700 bore size in 4032, but I haven't run across much yet.
I guess I'm looking for some guidance or wisdom. I'd love to get some parts on order, I've been thinking about this off and on for 2 years now and haven't really got anywhere with it.
I think I've read pretty much every short block, pistons, rods, etc thread on here, and I'm still not sure what direction I want to take. The previous owner got about 25k miles out of the gen 2 short block on 93 octane, so the cheapest and simplest route is to just get a Gen 3 short block and maybe gap the rings. I do plan to go with E85, it's fairly cheap and available in my area, so I'm not too worried about the higher compression. It has a Fore Innovation 2 pump system, not sure about pump sizes, and 95lb injectors. I don't have a specific power goal in mind, 800+ RWHP would be great, but I don't know how much past that the injectors would handle on E85.
Part of me really wants to buy the parts and assemble the short block myself. I think I would get a lot of satisfaction out of knowing that I did the work myself, and took the time to do it properly. I've never done it before, but I'm fairly technical and can read a manual. With the fairly cheap availability of machined blocks and components, my expectation is that I can take my time and bolt everything together myself, minus the crankshaft balancing. I have a family history of machinists and tool & die makers, so I understand clearances and precise measurements.
Now for the questions. The first one is on piston material. This is a street car, it might see some 1/8 mile passes every now and then, but my ultimate goal is reliable, reasonable power. I'd love an engine that can do another 50k+ miles without having to worry about it, and that seems to point me to 4032 forged pistons. I'd prefer to stay away from 2618 and the increased wear, noise, etc. The problem is that I've found almost no one that actually offers off the shelf 4032 pistons for a Gen 3 coyote. The only option I've found is DSS, and I haven't seen much feedback on those or folks that are running them. I emailed both Mahle and Manley since they previously made 4032 pistons for Coyotes, and they confirmed that they're not available for the Gen 3. Manley offered no explanation, and Mahle said there little demand, but feedback/requests could cause them to be available in the future.
I guess what I'm wondering is does anyone really know WHY there are so few options for 4032 pistons for the Gen 3 Coyotes? Is it just not that much of an upgrade over stock? Is there any issues with them and the PTWA cylinder walls? Are the 2618 options with advanced coatings "good enough" for a street car?
While I'm rambling, one thing I've also been looking at is going with the Predator block. For the cost, it seems like a good upgrade for not a ton of money, and I've found that Mahle does make the drop in "Voodoo" pistons in M142P that could be used. From my understanding the pin diameter is a bit smaller on these, so I'd need to run Voodoo specific rods, but rod length is the same. A boss crank would then put them just slightly lower in the bore (~.006" or there abouts), slightly lowering the compression. I'm pretty sure Olaosunt built something similar, or maybe the same thing. I haven't searched as hard to see if there are other piston options in the 3.700 bore size in 4032, but I haven't run across much yet.
I guess I'm looking for some guidance or wisdom. I'd love to get some parts on order, I've been thinking about this off and on for 2 years now and haven't really got anywhere with it.
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