Seats and Bracing

[MrMike]

Common reply from tracks uneducated about the way the Schroth harness differs from generic 4 point harnesses.

Time to go harness bar, seat, and HANS.

I assume that a harness bar just deletes my rear seat for all intents and purposes. I can then use a 5-point and HANS with a factory recaro seat if I desire, correct?

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[mavisky]

A harness bar allows you to retain the rear seat whereas a rollbar doesn't

 

[cop on my back]

I remember my old 2005 on track days with standard leather seats. By the end of the day my arms were so sore and tired from holding me in the seat using the steering wheel.

Then I got my 2015 with Recaro seats, what a difference. Following shortly after that I installed the Scroth 4 point harness. I could track all day and not be physically tire, so awesome.

I now transferred my harnesses to my 2022 Mach 1 with Recaro seats and same thing, a dream to track. I also installed a Watson 4 point Roll bar for this car and will go with a proper bar harness soon.

Nothing worse than being uncomfortable and tired on track. It is one of the first things mentioned in a book I read a couple years ago about racing, driver comfort.

 

[WItoTX]

Yes on the factory recaro's and harness bar. More ideally, you would add a roll bar though. There is some debate around this roll bar vs harness bar, and I've been researching it myself. Since you have a harness bar, the rear of the recaro can't collapse backwards in the case of a roll over. The argument is your head is still sticking up should you roll. Or the potential that if the roof collapses, back middle of the seat could collapse around the harness bar, breaking your upper back.

A fixed back, people make the argument that the seat is able to bear some weight, or ideally, the roll bar holds the roof up in a roll over. Simpson has done some research into this, and did the maths to figure out that in a roll over, your hear experiences something like 30 G's side to side (In a roll over where the roof collapses), and that the g force is what does the damage, the roof collapse is just the icing on the cake. Add to that, if you are rocking a 6 point, you really need to have a HANS on, even in city traffic. It's been shown the lack of give on the 6 point can cause broken necks when your body doesn't move, but your head does. Even in relatively low speed accidents.

OP, I know this info isn't as definitive as you need, but it's a start on places to research and make a decision for yourself. And truthfully, I wouldn't rely on anyone on this site (Myself included), or any store, or any parts supplier, over my own research into the actual safety of a given device, or system of devices.

 

[MrMike]

Yes on the factory recaro's and harness bar. More ideally, you would add a roll bar though. There is some debate around this roll bar vs harness bar, and I've been researching it myself. Since you have a harness bar, the rear of the recaro can't collapse backwards in the case of a roll over. The argument is your head is still sticking up should you roll. Or the potential that if the roof collapses, back middle of the seat could collapse around the harness bar, breaking your upper back.

A fixed back, people make the argument that the seat is able to bear some weight, or ideally, the roll bar holds the roof up in a roll over. Simpson has done some research into this, and did the maths to figure out that in a roll over, your hear experiences something like 30 G's side to side (In a roll over where the roof collapses), and that the g force is what does the damage, the roof collapse is just the icing on the cake. Add to that, if you are rocking a 6 point, you really need to have a HANS on, even in city traffic. It's been shown the lack of give on the 6 point can cause broken necks when your body doesn't move, but your head does. Even in relatively low speed accidents.

OP, I know this info isn't as definitive as you need, but it's a start on places to research and make a decision for yourself. And truthfully, I wouldn't rely on anyone on this site (Myself included), or any store, or any parts supplier, over my own research into the actual safety of a given device, or system of devices.

I have unfortunately arrived at a similar conclusion to what you're stating here. For my last track event of the season I will be doing *drumroll* absolutely nothing. I'll just take it easy on the light bulb.

The crux of the issue is that you have to look at it as a "safety system" where the factory seat, 3 point belt, and airbags are designed to all work together to protect you. This is why many people bring up "just do it all at once."

If you replace a part of the system, you need to compensate for all of it. On the S550 would include a half-cage, 5 or 6 point harness, helmet and FRS/HANS.

The only "good news" is that the factory Recaros seem good to go allowing the airbag light to stay off for track use. The "bad news" is that I've learned that the Shelby Recaro seats have a substantially better lower portion than the regular Mustang ones.

 

[txgt]

I have the Schroth QuickFit Pro and it is incredibly helpful for keeping all 6’2” 220 lbs of me firmly planted in the stock GT Premium leather seats.

I have yet to have any of the Dallas area HPDE organizations balk at the 4-point harness design. The QuickFit Pro does accept an Anti-Sub strap if you want to comply with their stipulations.

 

[mavisky]

I have unfortunately arrived at a similar conclusion to what you're stating here. For my last track event of the season I will be doing *drumroll* absolutely nothing. I'll just take it easy on the light bulb.

The crux of the issue is that you have to look at it as a "safety system" where the factory seat, 3 point belt, and airbags are designed to all work together to protect you. This is why many people bring up "just do it all at once."

If you replace a part of the system, you need to compensate for all of it. On the S550 would include a half-cage, 5 or 6 point harness, helmet and FRS/HANS.

The only "good news" is that the factory Recaros seem good to go allowing the airbag light to stay off for track use. The "bad news" is that I've learned that the Shelby Recaro seats have a substantially better lower portion than the regular Mustang ones.

This is the "best" move. You do have to look at it like a system which is why I use 3 points everywhere and the Schroth for autocross.

If I was to do actual track days I'd be investing in an actual set of seats, roll bar, 6 point harnesses, and a Hans setup. As you've found out, that adds up quickly.

 

[2morrow]

Snap some pix of what you end up going with

 

[2morrow]

A harness bar allows you to retain the rear seat whereas a rollbar doesn't

Not necessarily. I've seen 4 point half cages/roll bars that go through the upper section of rear panels allowing you to retain the rear seats.

Although it may seem counterintuitive as most people who install a Half Cage/Roll Bar are using it for motorsport purposes and your adding even more weight to the equation, it does exist for that micro market of drivers.

 

[mavisky]

Not necessarily. I've seen 4 point half cages/roll bars that go through the upper section of rear panels allowing you to retain the rear seats.

Although it may seem counterintuitive as most people who install a Half Cage/Roll Bar are using it for motorsport purposes and your adding even more weight to the equation, it does exist for that micro market of drivers.

Nice, first one I've seen for our cars that allows that.

 

[2morrow]

Nice, first one I've seen for our cars that allows that.

Kinda cool right?

Extra cool factor is that you can get it color matched to your car or any color.

Mine is black. I shoulda waited a little longer to get a unique finish

 

[shogun32]

being closer to Fluffy's (Gabriel Iglesias ) size as opposed to cocaine-chic, I already bought a set of seats from Baum thinking they might work. HA!!
I'm looking at giving these https://www.prpseats.com/product/bravo-composite-seat/ a whirl.
https://www.prpseats.com/product/alpha-composite-seat-extra-wide/

Anyone in NoVA who wants a set of still new seats (articulating) and a <36" waist, hit me up.

 

[Biggsy]

Whelp the Schroth plan took a crap. I'm being told no 4-points at my track whatsoever, even if I use a FHR.

Is that from the track or the organizer? I could've sworn I've seen cars with them at NJMP

 

[Biggsy]

being closer to Fluffy's (Gabriel Iglesias ) size as opposed to cocaine-chic, I already bought a set of seats from Baum thinking they might work. HA!!
I'm looking at giving these https://www.prpseats.com/product/bravo-composite-seat/ a whirl.
https://www.prpseats.com/product/alpha-composite-seat-extra-wide/

Anyone in NoVA who wants a set of still new seats (articulating) and a <36" waist, hit me up.

Sparco evo XL or OMP XL may fit you. Stop by OG Racing and try them out

 

[MrMike]

Is that from the track or the organizer? I could've sworn I've seen cars with them at NJMP

Both. I have also, but I am not ratting on others. I have only been to two track days and I've already seen people get kicked out. One was an instructor.

NJMP's official reply was that a 4 point harness is allowed but must be FIA certified and attached to a roll bar.

When I sent the link to the Schroth and asked, here was their reply:

That type of harness system would not be permitted as it's not properly attached to a permanent rollbar.

When I linked an alternate Schroth 4-point (Profi II ASM) that included a picture of them attached to a rollbar through a set of factory Recaros, the reply was:

Provided that the harness is DOT or FIA Specification, under Chapter 62 of NJSP 13:62-3.7 (d) Safety belts must be installed according to the manufacturer’s recommendations and to the guidelines. If that picture is from the manufacturer, then it would be sufficient for use during HPDE.

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