HPDE and Track Events

[OXWhiteGT]

Hey everyone!

New member here (Although I've used the site as a lurker for while) and had some track related questions.

I recently bought my 2019 S550 GT PP1 back in Oct 2022 and have done just light mods so far (Eibach Pro Kit, Lund 91/93 & E85 tune, Wheels & tires, Corsa Exhaust, DOT4 fluids, SS Lines). I wanted to keep it pretty basic to start because I was always planning on tracking the car. I didn't want to go full out before learning the car and getting as much seat time first before anything.

Question I ready had is around temps... I'm still a novice track driver (Have done 3 HPDE events this year) so I just wanted to see where you guys typically are with temps and around when you guys back off if seeing like a "Danger Zone" level in temps. For now when I go to the track I throw the stock PP1 wheels and tires back on and I just run the Lund 91/93 tune as well. I know when I was running some of the hot laps I did see ~230 cylinder head temps, but don't remember seeing much else.

Are there temps you'll see and then start to back off like for Cylinder head temps or anything else?



Thanks in advance!

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[MrBD1348]

From my understanding - Diff temp and CHT are the 2 main ones to watch. I think 240 for diff is when you should give it a cooling lap. My first event i didn't get close to that temp. I will let you know Saturday night if the exhaust wrap and fluid change kept it below the thermal limit when i push it harder

 

[Ewheels]

My friend's dad is the Quality Manager for Philips 66 and he told me most all oils only contain additives that protect against wear up to 270°F. After 270, the oil is breaking down. To what degree and rate of degradation - no idea but it is happening.

Diff and engine oil temp should stay under 270°F ideally.
With heat wrap around the exhaust and thicker oil in the diff, I have never seen over 250°F so you're good with those mods.
For the engine, I commonly see edge of green or slightly into the yellow range. Edge of green is already 280°F so that's already too high. Now the engine isn't going to immediately explode the second you get over 270°F but you don't want to stay this hot for long. Frequent oil changes are the best and easiest protection.
Most racers generally agree that engine oil should be in the range of 230°-260°F.

For CHT, everyone has a different cutoff point. Personally, I back off the throttle at 235°F. I wouldn't recommend going any higher than that.


EDIT: for engine oil, I'd say as long as you change your oil every track weekend or every other track weekend and keep your temps in the green, you should be fine. If you want added protection, add an oil cooler. If you want precise results, send an oil sample to Black Stone.

Also, if manual trans, these generally don't get that hot. No worries. If A10, I think the recommended cutoff is 215°F but don't quote me on that.

 

[luc]

It’s all depends how fast you are and the outside temperature
With stock pp1 tires/size and without camber plates I really doubt that you’re going to go fast enough to tax the car
Good investment is to add a real oil temperature gauge
The shelby is better than nothing and can easily be added to the pp1

 

[Ewheels]

The shelby is better than nothing and can easily be added to the pp1

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that one is still inferred.

 

[luc]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that one is still inferred.

You’re correct but at least has numbers on it
Not sure if on the 19 you can get a value or just the colored graph like on my 17

 

[tosha]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that one is still inferred.

For otherwise stock car, this seems to be good enough and if it's already a PP1, swapping to GT350 center gauges is the easiest route.

 

[LowPSI]

I lift at 240 CHT. Haven't hit the diff over temp yet at the tracks I've been to but I'd probably lift at about 280.

The Mt82d4 can and will overheat. I've got a temp probe on mine and back off about 280.

Fluids I change as follows:
Oil - when indicator gets about 30%
Trans - a season
Diff - a season

Also depends on how many track miles you put on the car and how hot you get it.

 

[OXWhiteGT]

Really appreciate all the responses so far!

Luc - Yeah, I know I'm not really driving it hard enough yet at the moment as I'm still getting familiar with the car and just on the basic pretty much stock setup for this year. The oil temp gauge out of the 350 might be interesting to look into, thank you!

EWheels & LowPSI - I'll keep an eye out for these when I'm at my next track day and try to see around where I'm getting as well, but at least for now these are some guidelines I can drive towards.

My next track day (Mid-Ohio) is Aug 21st so I'll try to take a look at what some of my other gauges get up to in respective to temps.

 

[TundraOnKings]

I just logged in for the first time in a long time to post my 2020 GT PP1 for sale. I spent quite some time here trying to get it right for track, and gave up. Then built a 2020 992 911S, which is a monster. Most said I wouldn’t overheat the PP1 since I was a novice driver, but I overheated the Diff, Trans, and Oil the first day out. I did aftermarket Mishimoto oil cooler, trans cooler, BG diff fluid and wrap, and it made it much better, but not perfect. I was as fast as my 911 buddy (997 built for track) but only for a few laps before I had to back off.
If you’re serious about getting into track, I’d recommend the Mach1 and save the headaches I went through, and money. I’ll never get my money back, which I wasn’t expecting to - just wish I went Mach1 from the start.
This is how I drove the Mustang last year on track to give you an idea skill level wise for overheating (of course track and temps will vary) I’m much more advanced now in the 911.
I have a ton of Mustang track videos - 06blacktaco on YouTube.


If I get really low balled on the sale of the Mustang, I’ll have some track goodies up for sale that would get you started.
19x10 Squared Apex SM10’s with a used set of 285/35/19 GY SuperCar3’s, along with a brand new full set of SuperCar 3’s.
Brand new Steeda 2-Pc front/rear rotors, Bear front Rotors, GLOC race pads, possibly a bunch of Steeda bracing parts if I feel like removing (K brace, front sway, rear sway, front upper brace).

 

[luc]

I just logged in for the first time in a long time to post my 2020 GT PP1 for sale. I spent quite some time here trying to get it right for track, and gave up. Then built a 2020 992 911S, which is a monster. Most said I wouldn’t overheat the PP1 since I was a novice driver, but I overheated the Diff, Trans, and Oil the first day out. I did aftermarket Mishimoto oil cooler, trans cooler, BG diff fluid and wrap, and it made it much better, but not perfect. I was as fast as my 911 buddy (997 built for track) but only for a few laps before I had to back off.
If you’re serious about getting into track, I’d recommend the Mach1 and save the headaches I went through, and money. I’ll never get my money back, which I wasn’t expecting to - just wish I went Mach1 from the start.
This is how I drove the Mustang last year on track to give you an idea skill level wise for overheating (of course track and temps will vary) I’m much more advanced now in the 911.
I have a ton of Mustang track videos - 06blacktaco on YouTube.


If I get really low balled on the sale of the Mustang, I’ll have some track goodies up for sale that would get you started.
19x10 Squared Apex SM10’s with a used set of 285/35/19 GY SuperCar3’s, along with a brand new full set of SuperCar 3’s.
Brand new Steeda 2-Pc front/rear rotors, Bear front Rotors, GLOC race pads, possibly a bunch of Steeda bracing parts if I feel like removing (K brace, front sway, rear sway, front upper brace).

Is that an automatic??
Driving style also play a role

 

[EFI]

Is that an automatic??

Listen to those shifts. Is anyone going to manually change gears in an MT82 like that??

 

[luc]

Listen to those shifts. Is anyone going to manually change gears in an MT82 like that??

Didn’t had the sound on
I take that for a yes and automatic put out a lot more heat than manual

 

[TundraOnKings]

Didn’t had the sound on
I take that for a yes and automatic put out a lot more heat than manual

Obviously the MT82 is 4 less gears, so correct, that’s the A10. Rabbit holes can be gone down, but the A10 stayed cool after the cooler, diff did as well…..the engine oil, I was able to overheat after all the coolers…..on the freeway, doing spirited runs for 15-20 miles. I know you see me holding higher RPM’s on track, but for faster lap times that’s how the car needed to be driven.
The PP1 GT 5.0 ECU reads oil temps based off of coolant temps, even though an aftermarket oil cooler is installed. Shit design, IMO. The only way to fix this, is to cool the coolant (larger radiator, holes in hood/fenders). A simple oil cooler did not work.
Which is why I recommend the Mach1 with an ECU that is programmed to recognize the coolers.
I didn’t want to cut the car up, and be out $65K and unhappy with the results. I wanted to stay on track for 30+ minutes without a worry and be fast, with consistently low lap times. That cost me about $100k more, but it’s done, and I’ve never been so happy
I honestly think the Mach1 is the way to go for a fun, affordable track package. I was soooo close to going that route, just had the opportunity to not. I’d recommend the Mach1 to all that want a great track experience with no headaches and fast last times.

 

[Flyhalf]

Fyi there.is a legend around that thicker oil in the diff =less.heat.
Is actually the opposite.

thicker oil.in the diff = HIGHER TEMPS.
A thicker oil will "resist better in case u go for long time above 250f

Engine oil temps are the key. A bigger cooler should be in your plans really soon if you keep tracking it.
Racelouvers.com help to dissipate heat (and add front DF)

LAST. MOST IMPORTANT IS BOXING AND DUCTING THE FRONT RADIATOR. AT LEAST THE OUTSIDE to have all the air passing through the radiator!
Have fun.
Alessandro

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