SCCA CAM-C Thread

[mavisky]

I have to admit, I've never heard the knuckle to be the cause of the advancetrac re-engaging. It's usually a failed sensor, bad wheel bearing, or an aged battery that I have seen it happen.

This is a very interesting hypothesis from Steeda, and listening to their video, I think they just sort of declared it, not that they scientifically proved that it was the knuckle causing the issue.

I may be way off base, but I think the computers on the car in a base GT vs a GT500 manage wheel slip significantly different, and even with all the nannies turned off, the base GT is going to re-engage more quickly than a GT500.

Data logging through Forscan should enable you to log vehicle speed sensors and it should throw a trouble code if the VSS at one of the wheels errored out and led to the system coming back on. The few times I've had it happen to me have been when the car sees weird scenarios. There's a section on the autocross ar AMP where it would trigger sometimes as the car would go over a crest on asphalt and then transition over a small steel plate and then onto polished concrete. This was 99% of the time where the issue would arise.

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[kz]

I have to admit, I've never heard the knuckle to be the cause of the advancetrac re-engaging. It's usually a failed sensor, bad wheel bearing, or an aged battery that I have seen it happen.

I can tell you that in my case it was neither and I was getting that message routinely on our local bumpy lot - it was happening when this car was brand new - bearings and sensors are still fine, either battery installed (one of them being OEM) it would trigger it.

This is a very interesting hypothesis from Steeda, and listening to their video, I think they just sort of declared it, not that they scientifically proved that it was the knuckle causing the issue.

I agree there is no definitive proof but I haven't heard of this happening in Machs now that I think about it (I know Sam Strano had an issue in Bristol but that ended up being one of his Magneride delete modules wiggling loose) and they've been driven in competitive autocross quite extensively over the last year (by Sam and Shelly, Mike Leeder and Cindy Duncan not mentioning others - I can poll them if they ever had any trouble but I don't think they did) - which makes me thing that Steeda may have figured it out.

(and I also appreciate them putting things out like this or the rear coilover conversion with fairly limited customer base - rather than just something they can try to sell everyone (or worse -things like side scoops ;-) ) )

 

[TeeLew]

I think they just sort of declared it, not that they scientifically proved that it was the knuckle causing the issue.

Isn't that the Steeda way?

 

[WItoTX]

They did reply with a pretty good explanation of what they did as far as R&D is concerned. I don't think I'd want to go to a cast iron knuckle. It has to be significantly more weight. Then again, if it solves the problem people are chasing, maybe it is the appropriate fix.

 

[mavisky]

They did reply with a pretty good explanation of what they did as far as R&D is concerned. I don't think I'd want to go to a cast iron knuckle. It has to be significantly more weight. Then again, if it solves the problem people are chasing, maybe it is the appropriate fix.

I think the real upgrade is the Mach 1 bearing improvement over the stock GT bearings. Agreed on the weight though as it's actually sprung weight too. Would be awesome if they could just get the Mach 1 upright produced at scale.

 

[WItoTX]

Alright, so tech question for everyone. I have my battery mounted inside the wheel well in a proper battery mount.

SCCA rules say it must be mounted to the frame or chassis, or physically located inside a marine case. I also don't have an insulator on the positive terminal, but that is an easy fix.

What is everyone's thought on legality regarding the battery tray being mounted to the spare wheel well, and not having it enclosed in a marine box?

My argument is to the marine box is, the battery is in a water proof location, which would protect the battery from water. As far as being mounted to the chassis, I would argue its a unibody car, and therefore, it is in fact mounted to the frame/chassis.

Thoughts from the SCCA guys? Simple fixes?

 

[kz]

They did reply with a pretty good explanation of what they did as far as R&D is concerned. I don't think I'd want to go to a cast iron knuckle. It has to be significantly more weight. Then again, if it solves the problem people are chasing, maybe it is the appropriate fix.

It would be neat if the posted data - still sort of declaration ("trust us"). I am not sure it's a problem, don't think there are ill effects of pulling the plug. If there were other tangible benefits of that knuckle - would consider it (especially that hubs are wear parts after all and studs probably need a refresh at this point anyway in my car) but I am not convinced there are.

 

[kz]

Alright, so tech question for everyone. I have my battery mounted inside the wheel well in a proper battery mount.

SCCA rules say it must be mounted to the frame or chassis, or physically located inside a marine case. I also don't have an insulator on the positive terminal, but that is an easy fix.

What is everyone's thought on legality regarding the battery tray being mounted to the spare wheel well, and not having it enclosed in a marine box?

My argument is to the marine box is, the battery is in a water proof location, which would protect the battery from water. As far as being mounted to the chassis, I would argue its a unibody car, and therefore, it is in fact mounted to the frame/chassis.

Thoughts from the SCCA guys? Simple fixes?

It's just safety issue rather than legality to me - and tech inspections at autocross are worth exactly zero so my question is how do you personally feel about it - I'd still put something on that positive terminal to not fry battery or a car.

 

[WItoTX]

It's just safety issue rather than legality to me - and tech inspections at autocross are worth exactly zero so my question is how do you personally feel about it - I'd still put something on that positive terminal to not fry battery or a car.

I agree on the battery terminal. I have one sitting on the work bench, and probably should have added it when I put the new trunk on. It will be fixed this week.

As for the marine case. Section 3.3.3 states the battery will be in a marine case if it's a liquid filled battery (AGM and LiPo would be exempt). And those are the rules to pass tech. With no tech, no driving.

There is another part to this. HouSCCA got a new Chief of Tech, and IMO, is making they yearly tech WAY more complicated than it ever has been, or needs to be. We sign a waiver holding HouSCCA harmless, and for those of us with yearly tech for 2023, we are responsible to tech our own car. Well the new Chief Tech refuses to do the yearly tech before events, as has been done in the past 3 years, and wants to hold a single yearly tech inspection, 45 minutes south of Houston, over an hour from my house, and more than that for a lot of the Houston folks.

So...long story short, looking for folks input, especially if you are running a remote battery. Otherwise, I am thinking I will throw my LiPo back in, just to pass Tech.

 

[TeeLew]

Why don't you want a box? All in all, it looks like a good mount and you'll take care of the terminal, so that's all good. I don't see a problem as long as the seat is up. The idea of the box is the contain it if it ruptures. You just need a physical barrier between it and the driver as far as I know.

 

[mustanghammer]

For that kind of battery you don't need a box. I have an tiny AGM battery in rear foot well of my SCCA STU race car with no box only terminal boots.

The problem with the typical plastic marine battery box is that they make installing a proper mount more difficult. I have used them in the distant past to hold a lead acid battery in my CP Mustang and it was a pain in the ass. Eventually used a steel battery box with an integrated battery hold down.

 

[WItoTX]

Why don't you want a box? All in all, it looks like a good mount and you'll take care of the terminal, so that's all good. I don't see a problem as long as the seat is up. The idea of the box is the contain it if it ruptures. You just need a physical barrier between it and the driver as far as I know.

I am not against installing a box. In order to do so, I would have to drill holes in the bottom of the box, which would mean the battery box would still leak...and that assumes the bracket I have would fit inside a box. I am likely just going to find a quality AGM and move on. Plus, I think I can go a bit smaller than the 880 CCA amp battery I am running now and save some weight, since I've validated the cause of my electrical issues a few months back to the LiPo being the cause.

The reality is, it's my fault for not knowing the rules regarding batteries, I should have just bought the AGM in the first place. Now I will have a red top fit for a truck just sitting. Live and learn.

 

[mustanghammer]

The Red Top gel cell battery you are using also does not require a box. From the rules:

3.3.3.B.18.
All batteries (on-board power supplies) shall be attached securely to the frame or chassis structure, independent of any container or cover that may be present. Any wet-cell battery moved from the manufacturer’s original location shall be in a non-conductive, marine-type container or equivalent and the “hot” terminal shall be insulated.
NOTE: This will allow the use of gel cell or dry cell (AGM) batteries without a non-conductive, marine-type container where applicable.

So not a waste of money

 

[WItoTX]

The Red Top gel cell battery you are using also does not require a box. From the rules:

3.3.3.B.18.
All batteries (on-board power supplies) shall be attached securely to the frame or chassis structure, independent of any container or cover that may be present. Any wet-cell battery moved from the manufacturer’s original location shall be in a non-conductive, marine-type container or equivalent and the “hot” terminal shall be insulated.
NOTE: This will allow the use of gel cell or dry cell (AGM) batteries without a non-conductive, marine-type container where applicable.

So not a waste of money

It didn't even dawn on me all Optima's would be AGM. Solves that problem. Thanks!

 

[samstrano]

What happened to me in Bristol in 2022 was not the car's fault. But at 16k miles I did have the Left rear bearing start giving me issues, and had to change it at the Pro Finale. Ironically no slop, no noise, nothing but kept getting ABS sensor problems. It was kind of dirty in there, maybe that was it. I still have that hub, though I am not sure why.

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