OPG AND CS

[Grimace427]

Not really, a lot of shops local to me still charge actual hours, the estimate is just that, an estimate, so it's on your dime if it takes them longer. This is why around by me shops have become so specialized to a few makes and models, so that they are good at what they do and dont have to deal with customers pissing and moaning. But its a double edge sword, I have been through a few jobs with 6-7 hour estimates with the work done in 3. All comes down to trusting the garage.

I can't imagine doing business with a company like that where I don't know up front how much an install will cost. Only exceptions being unforeseen failures while the work was being performed. Having been a tech at both a dealer and now an independent shop for about 14 years I'd rather eat some of the cost myself for the first time doing a job(and explain up front that I haven't yet done that particular job) and hope to make it up later as I get more experienced than to keep the clock running and charge the customer more and more simply because it is taking me a long time to complete that job.

I definitely understand the specialization that comes with experience in particular makes/models. I'm a German car specialist which means I get a lot of the work that other indie shops(and even some dealers that have young inexperienced techs) can't/won't handle themselves.

If we are talking some custom fabrication or classic car restoration I can understand charging by time.

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[Performance nut]

I agree 100%.

The only reason I went to this guy to begin with is they told me they've installed about 10 superchargers on the S550 mustang. I was sold on that..
Problem with living in Toronto is not many guys down here supercharge there s550. There's too many damn JDM/Euro car guys here and a lot of guys with STOCK mustangs. So pretty much every reputable mechanic I went to told me "I've never installed it before so it'll take longer". And I went to places that are well known and have built crazy drag cars.

Been there, done that. It's a tough place to be in. It leaves with three choices: take it and hope for a reach around, drive long distances for someone who actually knows what they are doing, or bust out a manual and start wrenching.

I usually opted for the third option. My work wasn't the best and I always took longer than it should have but I learned quite a bit in the process and was able to see where the car could improve further past this mod. Now I'm too old for that crap but I'm patient. I'd rather ship my car somewhere and get a rental car than take the chance on an oil change mechanic.

 

[higdominator]

It's possible they got hung up on a step or two (oil pump pickup tube, lol) or didn't have the latest Ford timing procedure and that added hours to the tab. I honestly wouldn't charge if I deviated from the normal procedure (IE if I didn't get the timing right the first time). That's my time to fix it.

I'd likely ask if they got hung up somewhere.

I agree with what was posted above. I consider mechanics/tuners to be akin to Dr.'s. I need a open communication and trusting relationship. There is one tune I trust and locally there is only one person I would trust to work on my car. It's not that there aren't more capable people, it's just that he has proven to be top notch...and he's never even done work for me, lol.

 

[Rick@LASTREETCARS]

It's possible they got hung up on a step or two (oil pump pickup tube, lol) or didn't have the latest Ford timing procedure and that added hours to the tab. I honestly wouldn't charge if I deviated from the normal procedure (IE if I didn't get the timing right the first time). That's my time to fix it.

I'd likely ask if they got hung up somewhere.

I agree with what was posted above. I consider mechanics/tuners to be akin to Dr.'s. I need a open communication and trusting relationship. There is one tune I trust and locally there is only one person I would trust to work on my car. It's not that there aren't more capable people, it's just that he has proven to be top notch...and he's never even done work for me, lol.

Cheers on this!

 

[Evo_Rob]

My cars in the shop getting it's paxton supercharger install... They just finished the OPG and CS. It's been in the shop all week and they said just the OPG and CS took them about 14 hours... Does that sound reasonable?

They originally quoted me 16-18 hours for supercharger install and OPG CS, don't think that achievable now.

It took me exactly 11 hours to do with BS'ing and taking breaks. Now that I know how to do it, I'd say maybe 10 hours is the right estimate

 

[TooSoonJunior]

I can't imagine doing business with a company like that where I don't know up front how much an install will cost. Only exceptions being unforeseen failures while the work was being performed. Having been a tech at both a dealer and now an independent shop for about 14 years I'd rather eat some of the cost myself for the first time doing a job(and explain up front that I haven't yet done that particular job) and hope to make it up later as I get more experienced than to keep the clock running and charge the customer more and more simply because it is taking me a long time to complete that job.

I definitely understand the specialization that comes with experience in particular makes/models. I'm a German car specialist which means I get a lot of the work that other indie shops(and even some dealers that have young inexperienced techs) can't/won't handle themselves.

If we are talking some custom fabrication or classic car restoration I can understand charging by time.

The main reason why this has happened more and more near me is because of alligator arm modders out there that complain about EVERYTHING cost wise. They want 1980's prices for engine swaps and basic work. Shops nowadays make almost $0 margin on labor, and because of the dawn of the internet they now make $0 margin on parts. So its a straight punch to the nuts when their guys run over an estimate, they have no place to make up for it except the owners wallet so they are forced to pass the additional labor cost straight to the customer.

This model works for 9 out of 10 cars. They give nice estimates that have nice and tight hours and hit their targets. On that 1 out of 10 they run over, customer gets the squeeze.

Not arguing its a good model, but for a lot of these guys its the only model to stay in business. Had the first 9 of 10 customers not been so tough on their willingness to pay for good work, probably wouldnt have to be that way.

A lot of the greatest shops you hear about on these forums that give great install prices tend to be 3-4 years in business as a full blown shop, and unfortunately tend to go bust in the same years later. Many of the shops near me with this model are 20+ years in the biz and is the model they have had to move to to survive.

 

[pro 5.0]

When you work on your own car in your garage you can work at whatever pace you want, and if you do it fast and make a mistake no big deal you do it over. A shop has to take responsibility for the work done if they rush the job and something goes wrong they have to eat it, take your time and do the job right the first time. All depends how they quoted the job if they said it's 14 - 16 hrs and that was just an estimate, then you should have asked what if it goes over ? bottom line is that if you can't do it yourself then you are forced to get someone else to do it and you must pay what it costs.

 

[RubyRedBoost]

My opg and cg are getting installed right now for $749. So yeah they definitely need an earful. 16hrs is just way too over the top.

 

[Performance nut]

The main reason why this has happened more and more near me is because of alligator arm modders out there that complain about EVERYTHING cost wise. They want 1980's prices for engine swaps and basic work. Shops nowadays make almost $0 margin on labor, and because of the dawn of the internet they now make $0 margin on parts. So its a straight punch to the nuts when their guys run over an estimate, they have no place to make up for it except the owners wallet so they are forced to pass the additional labor cost straight to the customer.

This model works for 9 out of 10 cars. They give nice estimates that have nice and tight hours and hit their targets. On that 1 out of 10 they run over, customer gets the squeeze.

Not arguing its a good model, but for a lot of these guys its the only model to stay in business. Had the first 9 of 10 customers not been so tough on their willingness to pay for good work, probably wouldnt have to be that way.

A lot of the greatest shops you hear about on these forums that give great install prices tend to be 3-4 years in business as a full blown shop, and unfortunately tend to go bust in the same years later. Many of the shops near me with this model are 20+ years in the biz and is the model they have had to move to to survive.

First, the person giving quotes better know what they are talking about and not pulling numbers out of their ass. It gets old getting quotes that are nothing more than lip service. An estimate should be treated almost like a contract: if you can't live with the terms, don't make the deal.

With that said, honest mistakes do happen and I can appreciate that. I can also appreciate what you are saying about shops going out of business because they are eating their mistakes. That is likely very true. Though you don't need to resort to passing the buck on mistakes if you can run a business. Some guys are great at the business and suck at the wrenching, others are great mechanics, suck at the numbers. It takes both to run a really good shop and those shops are rare.

I wish more knew how to run a good business. So many talented guys out there that just can't wrap their heads around how to be successful.

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