MT-82 Class Action Lawsuit

[Deleted member 35786]

I take it you haven't yet read the threads dealing with the plethora of A10 problems.
You're lucky to have a good A10, just like others seem to be lucky enough to have a good M6.
The problem is, at 50K dollars (or euros, if you're on the wrong side of the ocean) one shouldn't have to rely on luck.

I have the A6, mine is a 2017 GT.
Next lawsuit should be over the driveshaft vibrations that seem to be prevalent in the convertibles.

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[Elp_jc]

What I haven't seen is the percentage of owners having problems; THAT is the metric IMO. But what can't be quantified is how percentage of that percentage could be attributed to misuse, abuse, or simply not understanding an engine and transmission need to be at operating temperature to function properly. AND that a factory application with the proper isolation to pass NVH standards just can't bang shifts as quickly as many like. And no, I don't know that percentage, but my guess is that figure is a lot higher than we think. And as I mentioned earlier, the final version of this transmission (D4) shouldn't have been included. There's no way the few real issues with it warrany a class action lawsuit; it's just an abuse of the legal system IMO.

Finally, what I can say is my transmission works beautifully when at operating temperature. I don't like the notchiness when cold, but EVERY freaking manual transmission is going to have that, because it's NORMAL. And yes, if you try to manhandle it when cold, or abuse it when hot, you're going to have 'issues' (grinding, lockouts, etc) that are really not issues, but abuse, or misuse. But yes, I also understand those parameters are nowhere to be found, because it's almost impossible to define them all. What is an acceptable cold quick shift? How about a hot quick shift? But having said that, It should be pretty obvious to mechanically inclined individuals (most manual drivers are IMO) what is acceptable of a factory fitted transmission which needs to deal with NVH issues. To pass that, it needs to be isolated, so there's obviously going to be a compromise in the design. You can't expect to bang shifts like if you were racing, and even less when still not at operating temperature. And I bet a great deal of 'issues' is due to that. If you want it to behave like that, it needs to be modified, just like the suspension, engine, etc. Of course I'm not defending Ford, especially on the previous iterations, because we'll never know the details. But what I'm saying is as an owner of a 2019 D4, and after owning manual cars for over 4 decades, the D4 is one of the best transmissions I've ever owned, so it's not a bad transmission at all. It might not be as robust (for abuse) as Tremecs, but having owned several T56 and TR6060s, I prefer the MT-82 over those all day long. But yes, I'm never going to abuse my tranny. It's hard to draw the line between abuse and malfunction, but I'm almost sure it's more of the former than the latter, especially with the D4, and that might accelerate the killing of manual transmissions, which is unfortunate. That's all I'm trying to say. Hope those who want to join the lawsuit here at least do it convinced it's an actual defect, and not abuse they unfairly want it to be expected use.

 

[Deleted member 35786]

What I haven't seen is the percentage of owners having problems; THAT is the metric IMO. But what can't be quantified is how percentage of that percentage could be attributed to misuse, abuse, or simply not understanding an engine and transmission need to be at operating temperature to function properly. AND that a factory application with the proper isolation to pass NVH standards just can't bang shifts as quickly as many like. And no, I don't know that percentage, but my guess is that figure is a lot higher than we think. And as I mentioned earlier, the final version of this transmission (D4) shouldn't have been included. There's no way the few real issues with it warrany a class action lawsuit; it's just an abuse of the legal system IMO.

Finally, what I can say is my transmission works beautifully when at operating temperature. I don't like the notchiness when cold, but EVERY freaking manual transmission is going to have that, because it's NORMAL. And yes, if you try to manhandle it when cold, or abuse it when hot, you're going to have 'issues' (grinding, lockouts, etc) that are really not issues, but abuse, or misuse. But yes, I also understand those parameters are nowhere to be found, because it's almost impossible to define them all. What is an acceptable cold quick shift? How about a hot quick shift? But having said that, It should be pretty obvious to mechanically inclined individuals (most manual drivers are IMO) what is acceptable of a factory fitted transmission which needs to deal with NVH issues. To pass that, it needs to be isolated, so there's obviously going to be a compromise in the design. You can't expect to bang shifts like if you were racing, and even less when still not at operating temperature. And I bet a great deal of 'issues' is due to that. If you want it to behave like that, it needs to be modified, just like the suspension, engine, etc. Of course I'm not defending Ford, especially on the previous iterations, because we'll never know the details. But what I'm saying is as an owner of a 2019 D4, and after owning manual cars for over 4 decades, the D4 is one of the best transmissions I've ever owned, so it's not a bad transmission at all. It might not be as robust (for abuse) as Tremecs, but having owned several T56 and TR6060s, I prefer the MT-82 over those all day long. But yes, I'm never going to abuse my tranny. It's hard to draw the line between abuse and malfunction, but I'm almost sure it's more of the former than the latter, especially with the D4, and that might accelerate the killing of manual transmissions, which is unfortunate. That's all I'm trying to say. Hope those who want to join the lawsuit here at least do it convinced it's an actual defect, and not abuse they unfairly want it to be expected use.

This is what the article says from Ford.
"In 2011, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration conducted an investigation into the Mustang's manual gearbox. According to provided documents, the NHTSA received 364 complaints regarding the Getrag unit, though it ultimately found no safety risks. Ford also took action to correct the problems reported to the agency, though it found these faults affected only three percent of all transmissions.

The Drive's Mike Spinelli reported on this several years ago at Jalopnik, explaining that Ford blamed "abusive" Mustang owners for such issues. Apparently, most of them occurred when temperatures were cold, and the cars hadn't been properly warmed up.

Ford itself says these problems can be attributed to simple wear and tear, denying any actual defect with the transmissions."

 

[OnThree]

What I haven't seen is the percentage of owners having problems; THAT is the metric IMO. But what can't be quantified is how percentage of that percentage could be attributed to misuse, abuse, or simply not understanding an engine and transmission need to be at operating temperature to function properly. AND that a factory application with the proper isolation to pass NVH standards just can't bang shifts as quickly as many like. And no, I don't know that percentage, but my guess is that figure is a lot higher than we think. And as I mentioned earlier, the final version of this transmission (D4) shouldn't have been included. There's no way the few real issues with it warrany a class action lawsuit; it's just an abuse of the legal system IMO.

Finally, what I can say is my transmission works beautifully when at operating temperature. I don't like the notchiness when cold, but EVERY freaking manual transmission is going to have that, because it's NORMAL. And yes, if you try to manhandle it when cold, or abuse it when hot, you're going to have 'issues' (grinding, lockouts, etc) that are really not issues, but abuse, or misuse. But yes, I also understand those parameters are nowhere to be found, because it's almost impossible to define them all. What is an acceptable cold quick shift? How about a hot quick shift? But having said that, It should be pretty obvious to mechanically inclined individuals (most manual drivers are IMO) what is acceptable of a factory fitted transmission which needs to deal with NVH issues. To pass that, it needs to be isolated, so there's obviously going to be a compromise in the design. You can't expect to bang shifts like if you were racing, and even less when still not at operating temperature. And I bet a great deal of 'issues' is due to that. If you want it to behave like that, it needs to be modified, just like the suspension, engine, etc. Of course I'm not defending Ford, especially on the previous iterations, because we'll never know the details. But what I'm saying is as an owner of a 2019 D4, and after owning manual cars for over 4 decades, the D4 is one of the best transmissions I've ever owned, so it's not a bad transmission at all. It might not be as robust (for abuse) as Tremecs, but having owned several T56 and TR6060s, I prefer the MT-82 over those all day long. But yes, I'm never going to abuse my tranny. It's hard to draw the line between abuse and malfunction, but I'm almost sure it's more of the former than the latter, especially with the D4, and that might accelerate the killing of manual transmissions, which is unfortunate. That's all I'm trying to say. Hope those who want to join the lawsuit here at least do it convinced it's an actual defect, and not abuse they unfairly want it to be expected use.

Tell that to the people who had issues right when they drove off the lot. The whole people can't drive / abuse argument is grasping at straws

 

[Elp_jc]

This is what the article says from Ford.

I feel in this case Ford might be correct to a great extent. But again, I can't speak for the 'old' transmission, but being of Getrag design, which has been fitted to BMWs and other manufacturers successfully for decades (and I owned a few), it just doesn't make sense it was crap just on Fords.

Tell that to the people who had issues right when they drove off the lot. The whole people can't drive / abuse argument is grasping at straws

Who said anything about ALL cases being wrong? And who said it was because people 'can't drive'? Don't make crap up man. The only thing you said that I said is 'abuse'. And yes, I believe the great majority of issues can be attributed to that.

 

[OnThree]

I feel in this case Ford might be correct to a great extent. But again, I can't speak for the 'old' transmission, but being of Getrag design, which has been fitted to BMWs and other manufacturers successfully for decades (and I owned a few), it just doesn't make sense it was crap just on Fords.


Who said anything about ALL cases being wrong? And who said it was because people 'can't drive'? Don't make crap up man. The only thing you said that I said is 'abuse'. And yes, I believe the great majority of issues can be attributed to that.

"Abuse" from banging gears when it's cold would qualify as someone who can't drive.

A great majority of the issues can be attributed to Ford's terrible QC seeing as these are assembled in China. Like I said, abuse isn't a factor when you have issues with it the second you drive it off the lot.

And besides, it's a sports cars, it needs to be engineered (to a certain degree) to withstand some abuse. That's the whole point of the car!

 

[IronG]

Not sure what everyone is expecting, but generally these lawsuits benefit the lawyers with lots of cash. What owners get are normally reimbursement of out of pocket repairs and maybe a longer warranty on some parts. There won't be anything for everyone except the potential longer warranty period.

 

[Elp_jc]

"Abuse" from banging gears when it's cold would qualify as someone who can't drive. NOPE. MARIO ANDRETTI COULD DO THAT, AND HE KNOWS HOW TO DRIVE. YOU JUST NEED TO KNOW YOU CANNOT DO THAT UNTIL FULL OPERATING TEMPERATURE, OR IT'D BE UNINTENTIONAL ABUSE.

A great majority of the issues can be attributed to Ford's terrible QC seeing as these are assembled in China. Like I said, abuse isn't a factor when you have issues with it the second you drive it off the lot.
WRONG TOO. YOU CAN DRIVE RIGHT OFF THE LOT SHIFTING QUICKER THAN YOU SHOULD. AND THE COLDER IT IS, THE MORE GENTLE YOU HAVE TO BE. AND YOU CAN HAVE EXCELLENT QUALITY IN CHINA. IF YOU HAVEN'T NOTICED, A TON OF AUTOMOTIVE PARTS ARE MADE THERE .

And besides, it's a sports cars, it needs to be engineered (to a certain degree) to withstand some abuse. That's the whole point of the car!
INDEED. BUT YOUR DEFINITION OF 'SOME ABUSE' IS PROBABLY NOT THE SAME AS FORD'S .

Bottom line is there definitely are cases of defective transmissions (especially the older ones), like on everything mechanical. And also of abuse (intentional or not), but we'll never know the percentage of each. My opinion is that there are A LOT more of the latter than the former, but to each his own.

 

[66Bronc1]

Geez, I'm glad I still don't have mine anymore. While my Trans seemed fine, the engine knocked and rattled so much and the dealer acknowledged it by having the car 3 weeks but would not do anything about it. They said it was the ticking issue and pointed to the service bulletin and that it was "normal". It was way more than just ticking. After 6K miles I had enough and traded the car. The good thing was I got the car at a super great price and lost only only 3K from what I paid for it..

 

[tom_sprecher]

This is the best shifting transmission I have ever owned since my first in '79. You need to let it warn up, but that's how most mechanical systems work.

The only time I had problems with the MT-82 was when I put an aftermarket short shifter in it.

 

[amburch08]

I just got a new short throw installed at a Ford dealer here in kansas and went to go pick it up and I can't shift into first or second anymore....why does it seem like I'm about to get fucked by the dealer now....I had zero problems before I went into the dealer and now I have these magical problems..

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I just got a new short throw installed at a Ford dealer here in kansas and went to go pick it up and I can't shift into first or second anymore....why does it seem like I'm about to get fucked by the dealer now....I had zero problems before I went into the dealer and now I have these magical problems..

You should have been clued in when they had to back the car to where you picked it up. j/k

I would start with a polite visit to the service manager. The farther up the chain you get from the mechanic the less they take complaints personal.

 

[amburch08]

You should have been clued in when they had to back the car to where you picked it up. j/k

I would start with a polite visit to the service manager. The farther up the chain you get from the mechanic the less they take complaints personal.

Yes sir actually I remember hearing the guy over the radio saying he couldn't get it into first then I heard my car and saw it go around back(Borla Atak). Yeah we had some issues with a quote early on but figured it out. I can tell hes a little worried now but I was pretty kind about it, but overall I'm pretty ticked with my paint bubbling already and seats ripping within 4* years of owning but hey they dont make these cars with quality anymore imo.

 

[Deleted member 35786]

I have owned many Hondas with manual transmissions, as my kids have them as well. Trust me we beat those manuals to death and have 150K miles on them without an issue. Granted its not a V8 with 400+hp..
I would be willing to entertain the idea that more than 50% of these transmission issues is with cars that have been ragged on daily and or tuned/modified. But hey who am I.. Hope it works out with you all.

 

[amburch08]

I have owned many Hondas with manual transmissions, as my kids have them as well. Trust me we beat those manuals to death and have 150K miles on them without an issue. Granted its not a V8 with 400+hp..
I would be willing to entertain the idea that more than 50% of these transmission issues is with cars that have been ragged on daily and or tuned/modified. But hey who am I.. Hope it works out with you all.

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