MT-82 class action suit.

[WildHorse]

Not internal hardware.

Other than clutch springs, gear material (and finishes), and oil viscosities.

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[Brian@BMVK]

Other than clutch springs, gear material (and finishes), and oil viscosities.

One is not internal to the transmission, one is a maintenance item, and the other doesn't result in any shift feel/performance improvement. Longevity, possibly. Obviously it didn't do much, though.

The 2018+ they made a lot bigger changes to the geartrain.

 

[cmxPPL219]

It’s silly to say that because it’s made in China, the quality is automatically bad.
Has nothing to do with the country In which the tranny is manufactured and everything to do with cost, design and To which price point the tranny is built

Also yeah, don't blame China. Blame Ford for their lack of stringency on engineering & supplier quality requirements and follow-up to those requirements.

^The above are spoken by well-informed, objectively-thinking individuals.

The reason why China has a bad reputation for quality is because of decades and decades of mass consumption all over the world (the west included) for products, and wanting said products at the lowest possible cost. It's this continuous drive for the cheapest possible option, other consequences be dammed (mainly quality) that are a second thought, or, are simply overlooked.

It just so happens that China, as a whole (from a manufacturing standpoint) has the ability to deliver x product at the lowest x price point. And to business there, they say, "well, I delivered what you wanted at x cost. Why are you complaining now?" The moral question, is the factor that is not considered.

There's a saying in business: Do you want to be rich, or do you want to be right? Pick one.

It is not the country of origin that determines the quality. It is the factory of origin.
Look at what Apple can do in China, where iPhones, iPads etc., are produced. This is one side of the spectrum. The other, is obviously the absolute crap that comes out of China, from factories that have been setup and tooled to deliver products at x cost - quality suffers as a result.

The thing to remember is that ultimately, it is a company that is seeking to manufacture something at a target x cost, and is seeking out somewhere that is willing/able to deliver.

 

[Brian@BMVK]

^The above are spoken by well-informed, objectively-thinking individuals.

The reason why China has a bad reputation for quality is because of decades and decades of mass consumption all over the world (the west included) for products, and wanting said products at the lowest possible cost. It's this continuous drive for the cheapest possible option, other consequences be dammed (mainly quality) that are a second thought, or, are simply overlooked.

It just so happens that China, as a whole (from a manufacturing standpoint) has the ability to deliver x product at the lowest x price point. And to business there, they say, "well, I delivered what you wanted at x cost. Why are you complaining now?" The moral question, is the factor that is not considered.

There's a saying in business: Do you want to be rich, or do you want to be right? Pick one.

It is not the country of origin that determines the quality. It is the factory of origin.
Look at what Apple can do in China, where iPhones, iPads etc., are produced. This is one side of the spectrum. The other, is obviously the absolute crap that comes out of China, from factories that have been setup and tooled to deliver products at x cost - quality suffers as a result.

Bingo. Just pointing to "CHINA!!!" is a dog-whistle for the uninformed.

 

[WildHorse]

Bingo. Just pointing to "CHINA!!!" is a dog-whistle for the uninformed.

Then where are the thousands of failure MR INFORMED. Please, educate us hicks.

 

[cmxPPL219]

Bingo. Just pointing to "CHINA!!!" is a dog-whistle for the uninformed.

Exactly - thinking objectively, nothing is so black and white.

For example, the idea of Buy American, or Buy Canadian (in Canada) and boycott foreign-made goods.

I am all for supporting our local businesses, jobs and manufacturing. It is such a noble and proud thing to do, from whatever country or area you reside. And we should do it as much as we can.

However, those speaking from the extreme posture that people should buy everything American/Canadian/Insert whatever country" are failing to look at the whole picture.

1. Those same folks should take a look at their home, and look at every single item in it. Empty out and throw away every item made in India, Taiwan, Malaysia, Turkey, "China" etc. - Now, realize how empty your house will be.
2. Now, lets make everything Stateside, in Canada, whatever. Sure. So, be prepared for a recession greater than what the 'Rona has brought us, because nobody can afford anything, when WalMart prices for goods that are mostly made in "China" are already barely affordable for many folks.
That pair of jeans for 50 bucks, is now $400 Made in USA/Canada/etc. That iPhone one could barely afford on contract for 2 years, at $250, is now $2,000 Made in USA/Canada/etc. The list goes on.

Ultimately the point is balance - we need balance to be sustainable and to move forward in a meaningful way.

 

[Brian@BMVK]

Then where are the thousands of failure MR INFORMED. Please, educate us hicks.

Huh? Are you of the opinion that everything from China is junk because it is made there? That's only an opinion held by those who know almost nothing about how things are designed and manufactured. Is that what you believe? I'm not following you here.

 

[Elp_jc]

Yep. China can make great stuff, just like any other country; you just have to be willing to pay for that quality . And yes, you will pay less for the same quality component made in China than made in the US. But the problem is freaking companies want to save even more, to improve profits, so they're start skimping on quality. Then there come the recalls, they fix it, cut costs somewhere else, and the cycle repeats, and never ends. Ha ha. And in many cases, it'd had been cheaper to keep making quality parts, and therefore better for their image, and customer satisfaction. But nope; got to make more profits at any cost.

Oh, and American owned and American made are 2 different things. Just ask Ford what percentage of their vehicles are made in the US. You can buy a Ford vehicle made in Mexico, and a Honda one made in the US, so with the global economy, those lines are blurred now.

 

[ice445]

It’s silly to say that because it’s made in China, the quality is automatically bad.
Has nothing to do with the country In which the tranny is manufactured and everything to do with cost, design and To which price point the tranny is built

Chinese suppliers require lots of supervision to output good products, that's just how it's always been. Otherwise they will generally cheat. With that said, I agree.

I enjoy my Shenzhen Slammer, personally.

 

[16COEBM]

A couple years back I drove a buddy's 17 GT M6, after hearing about all the MT82 problems I was pretty surprised I could flat shift his stock car without a problem. I didnt even think twice before buying my 19 GT with the MT82.

So far I have added a MGW shifter, BG fluid, and the Steeda mount insert. It still wont go into gear over 7k rpm. Daily driving around town stuff, probably the best manual trans i've ever driven, it will damn near suck the trans into the next gear. Drag racing or roll racing, its terrible. There's tons of others with the same problem and more than a couple that have no problems. It really seems to be hit or miss. Maybe because its china-built, maybe the parts suppliers are inconsistent. The issue seems to be quality control, obviously that design is stout, there are a number of people running 9s and beating on these things regularly. And the root cause I think is the stock clutch not being up to the task of 7500+rpm shifts. Shifters and fluids are just band-aids. The clutch isnt up to the task and causes missed shifts and grinding which eventually leads to broken synchros and gears. Then the trans gets a piece of shit rep. Best method I have found for racing is not trying to shift it fast. If I run 2nd out, hand on the shifter, watch the tach swing past 7k and try and go for a hard shift, 10/10, im going to miss that gear.

 

[bschoon55]

A couple years back I drove a buddy's 17 GT M6, after hearing about all the MT82 problems I was pretty surprised I could flat shift his stock car without a problem. I didnt even think twice before buying my 19 GT with the MT82.

So far I have added a MGW shifter, BG fluid, and the Steeda mount insert. It still wont go into gear over 7k rpm. Daily driving around town stuff, probably the best manual trans i've ever driven, it will damn near suck the trans into the next gear. Drag racing or roll racing, its terrible. There's tons of others with the same problem and more than a couple that have no problems. It really seems to be hit or miss. Maybe because its china-built, maybe the parts suppliers are inconsistent. The issue seems to be quality control, obviously that design is stout, there are a number of people running 9s and beating on these things regularly. And the root cause I think is the stock clutch not being up to the task of 7500+rpm shifts. Shifters and fluids are just band-aids. The clutch isnt up to the task and causes missed shifts and grinding which eventually leads to broken synchros and gears. Then the trans gets a piece of shit rep. Best method I have found for racing is not trying to shift it fast. If I run 2nd out, hand on the shifter, watch the tach swing past 7k and try and go for a hard shift, 10/10, im going to miss that gear.

I have a 2018 with the MT-82 and I feel like you summed it up so well! For me, the trans fits how I need to drive the car most of the time.

When there is that time I want to really get on it and run it hard... the trans just can’t do it. I don’t know how to feel about it.. other than I know it bugs me a lot at times.

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

It really seems to be hit or miss. Maybe because its china-built, maybe the parts suppliers are inconsistent. The issue seems to be quality control, obviously that design is stout, there are a number of people running 9s and beating on these things regularly. And the root cause I think is the stock clutch not being up to the task of 7500+rpm shifts. Shifters and fluids are just band-aids. The clutch isnt up to the task and causes missed shifts and grinding which eventually leads to broken synchros and gears. Then the trans gets a piece of shit rep. Best method I have found for racing is not trying to shift it fast. If I run 2nd out, hand on the shifter, watch the tach swing past 7k and try and go for a hard shift, 10/10, im going to miss that gear.

10/10? That can't be common? Sure makes it sound like there's some hit and miss with these.

I like to rev it out on the track and almost never shift below 7,000 there, and almost all shifts are between second and third too. In three trackdays, with almost 80-100 x 3km laps each day, I've had at most two missed shifts, and unless it's a cool down round, I shift as fast I can.
Quite possibly, even likely, my one or two missed shifts (could not get it into third on the first try, had to retry) were just due to me bungling the shift while in a hurry.

If the design is sound and it's mostly a QC issue, I'm hoping it means I've been lucky with my gearbox and won't have problems in the future either.

 

[16COEBM]

When I say 10/10 I mean when I want to try a flat shift. Cause you know maybe something changed and it works now lol. I can still shift the car fast over 7k, just takes more finesse rather than speed.

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

When I say 10/10 I mean when I want to try a flat shift. Cause you know maybe something changed and it works now lol. I can still shift the car fast over 7k, just takes more finesse rather than speed.

Ah, I see. I have never tried flat shifting/powershifting. Worry something will break if I do. ;-)

 

[XeninWorX]

I don’t think I’ve ever been locked out of gear when shifting at high rpm. I’ve never done it going into 4th though as I’m never going that fast. I know to take my time with this transmission when shifting.

I did have that problem with my 06 Civic Si. The problem solver for that was changing the clutch master cylinder to an aftermarket one. The factory one delays the fluid transfer so when trying to shift fast, the clutch isn’t ready yet. Swapped it out for a K-Tuned one with a SMC and I could shift fast anytime at any RPM. Loved it.

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