MMR cooling head head mod

[80FoxCoupe]

Did you actually read my post? I'm conceding I've never seen any data. If it exists (doubtful) we're both in the dark about it.

Your point is taken, there's nothing concrete to support the claims.

And yet, the same also cuts the other way. Do you have any data to refute that it doesn't help temps in #8?

And 3D I meant of the channels in the heads and block.

If coolant returns from the radiator and enters the motor/heads, by the time it reaches the furthest point before being sent to the exchanger, it will be the hottest point. Temperature gradients are quite common in mechanical and chemical processing systems where cooler material enters heat constant heat transfer and by the end of the line, the coolant's capacity is diminished.

A crossover would be a sort of recycle to balance out the coolant temps at the beginning of their run vs the end and result in less disparity between points of the linear system.

This is admittedly all speculation until we see some real testing.

I find your skepticism healthy but also a bit zealous.

You are correct, there's nothing to say this works. Now prove to us all it doesn't work.

I'm just making a general statement in regards to the presentation of the data that supports this product works. It is not my position to prove that it does not work, as I am not the one trying to solve a problem or promote the fact that it does. Would the crossover equalize pressure differences from bank to bank, sure. Would that be enough to make a difference in temperature at the back of the engine? That is the question. Zealous? I suppose that's a matter of opinion. I'm not for or against this product. I am not running it and do not plan to. Nor would I care if anyone does or not. But if it does work and Data is provided, I would highly consider it. So maybe what you're detecting as zealousness, is actually my eagerness to find out if this product can benefit me or not.

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[80FoxCoupe]

Just an FYI, I run MMR products on both of my engines. If this works and there is data to support that, awesome. If it does not work and/or there is no data to support that it works then it is what it is.

 

[WildHorse]

suspect it helps to provide lower temp coolant to the 8 hole

No. What happen was some of the early bama tunes were grenading the #8 cylinder when the coyote first came out which bama eventually identified and fix with subsequent tunes. Mystery solved.

 

[Angrey]

Just an FYI, I run MMR products on both of my engines. If this works and there is data to support that, awesome. If it does not work and/or there is no data to support that it works then it is what it is.

Well, that's not the way it's coming across (to me). It's like you've made up your mind it's a gimmick and you're challenging everyone who even suggests otherwise.

I have nothing to prove it isn't a gimmick. Or nothing to prove it isn't negligible.

I'm just saying the flip side of that is that there's nothing to discount or disprove the idea either.

I can see/speculate that if coolant enters from the exchanger at the front of the motor, by the time it reaches the rear of the motor, there's a gradient (where the coolant is lower temperature when it begins entering heat sourced areas, and as it warms, it's ability to sink heat diminishes). This is a very common problem among linear and plug flow assemblies.

Unless you create a manifold which evenly distributes coolant equally to all points of the heat source, you end up with a gradient.

To maximize heat transfer, the greatest average temperature difference is employed. So if you have Cylinder heads at 200F temps and coolant entering at 140F, the first cylinder it exchanges will have maximum benefit of the temp delta (60F) then as it absorbs heat, the next one the effectiveness is a little less (200F vs 150 or a 50F delta) and so forth and so on, by the time it reaches the far end, the delta is reduced and therefore it's ability to thermally transfer is reduced.

In those scenarios, a recirculating flow from the front to the back helps to even out the gradient and provide more average delta along the entire exchange.

If for whatever reason, the rear driver's side head is getting hotter and the coolant from the rear passenger head is slightly cooler, then a simple exchange would help to blend them and reduce the issue. Or if the passenger side is for whatever reason getting more flow rate.

I'm just saying, it would be an awful long con for MMR (and others) to develop this out of some sense of gimmick. I'm betting it works. I'm also betting that any benefits are probably debatable or negligible.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Well, that's not the way it's coming across (to me). It's like you've made up your mind it's a gimmick and you're challenging everyone who even suggests otherwise.

I have nothing to prove it isn't a gimmick. Or nothing to prove it isn't negligible.

I'm just saying the flip side of that is that there's nothing to discount or disprove the idea either.

I can see/speculate that if coolant enters from the exchanger at the front of the motor, by the time it reaches the rear of the motor, there's a gradient (where the coolant is lower temperature when it begins entering heat sourced areas, and as it warms, it's ability to sink heat diminishes). This is a very common problem among linear and plug flow assemblies.

Unless you create a manifold which evenly distributes coolant equally to all points of the heat source, you end up with a gradient.

To maximize heat transfer, the greatest average temperature difference is employed. So if you have Cylinder heads at 200F temps and coolant entering at 140F, the first cylinder it exchanges will have maximum benefit of the temp delta (60F) then as it absorbs heat, the next one the effectiveness is a little less (200F vs 150 or a 50F delta) and so forth and so on, by the time it reaches the far end, the delta is reduced and therefore it's ability to thermally transfer is reduced.

In those scenarios, a recirculating flow from the front to the back helps to even out the gradient and provide more average delta along the entire exchange.

If for whatever reason, the rear driver's side head is getting hotter and the coolant from the rear passenger head is slightly cooler, then a simple exchange would help to blend them and reduce the issue. Or if the passenger side is for whatever reason getting more flow rate.

I'm just saying, it would be an awful long con for MMR (and others) to develop this out of some sense of gimmick. I'm betting it works. I'm also betting that any benefits are probably debatable or negligible.

Asking for data is hardly "challenging". If its proven to work and there is info to support that, ill buy it.

 

[shogun32]

GT350 were breaking cyl 7/8 and there was more than casual suggestion heat played a factor.
What's so damn hard for Ford to cast in a splitter so cold water enters at the front of the block and also half way back?

 

[WD Pro]

If the flow rate and pressure to each head is the same, how does any coolant flow in either direction through the new pipe ?

Is there a proven difference in flow rate or pressure between the heads ?

It would be interesting to split the connection pipe and put a flow meter in it to see which way water is moving and at what rate.

WD

 

[Jackson1320]

If the flow rate and pressure to each head is the same, how does any coolant flow in either direction through the new pipe ?

Is there a proven difference in flow rate or pressure between the heads ?

It would be interesting to split the connection pipe and put a flow meter in it to see which way water is moving and at what rate.

WD

The coolant in the right head exits out the top of the head into the heater core then to the water pump. This makes a suction pulling water from the left head also if you have the cooling mod. So the water is being pushed into the cooling mod and pulled through it both by the water pump

 

[WildHorse]

Wow you guys are way over thinking this. The coyote cooling system is just fine. Want cooler temps just get a 170 thermostat, bigger rad, adjust the cooling fans. Mustang GT4 cars don't have this mod.

 

[Angrey]

From another forum discussion (there are numerous) it seems a benefit might be signal accuracy of the temp sensor (which apparently is on the passenger bank rear). So if there's a temp delta between 8 and 4 and this crossover helps to give the management system more accurate temp information for the hottest spot in the coolant system.

If the motor is setting table values based upon coolant temps that are slightly less than worst case spot, it could be tuned for (i.e. assume that if the sensor is reading 185F, it's really 190F at #8, etc) however, it makes sense that when the motor nukes, one of the first places it detonates is in the hottest cylinder(s). So even tuning some error/forgiveness in it, maybe this helps even more.

Other discussions basically said that yeah, motors have nuked #8 even with this mod in place.

At the end of the day, it's $150 and if it helps great, if not, it's not like I'm going without deodorant because of it.

 

[shogun32]

I've always wondered why thermostats are designed to open and allow hot water to the rad when it should be the opposite. The thermostat CLOSES and blocks water from bypassing the rad. In other words the failure mode is all water goes to the radiator, not the other way around.

 

[Angrey]

I've always wondered why thermostats are designed to open and allow hot water to the rad when it should be the opposite. The thermostat CLOSES and blocks water from bypassing the rad. In other words the failure mode is all water goes to the radiator, not the other way around.

Because in colder conditions, the coolant needs to get up to operating temp and once it reaches that, now it's time to send to the heat exchanger and stabilize it at that temp.

The motor doesn't run well with temps low, the oil doesn't get hot enough to evaporate off contaminants from fuel. This is why there are downsides to going really low on the T-stat default setting. The oil also has to get up to temp otherwise it's too viscous to provide the designed flow to crucial lubricating parts.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

From another forum discussion (there are numerous) it seems a benefit might be signal accuracy of the temp sensor (which apparently is on the passenger bank rear). So if there's a temp delta between 8 and 4 and this crossover helps to give the management system more accurate temp information for the hottest spot in the coolant system.

This is assuming coolant is migrating from driver side to pass side via the cooling mod. We dont know if that is true or not. It would be awesome if MMR would just post up thier testing results so we dont have to assume.

 

[Jackson1320]

It doesn’t really cool anything it just keeps both heads closer to the same temperature. Because the cht sensor is in the right head there’s no way for the ecm to know if the left head is running hot. So if you can keep both heads close to the same temperature you are better off. A lot of ring land failures are on cylinders 7-8 because they get the hottest. This is because water flows in through the block then up into the head and out the front top part of the head. cylinders seven and eight already having less cooling jacket then add that the water is actually designed to flow away from the back of the head. That’s why the temperature sensor is in the back of the right cylinder head is the back of the head gets the hottest. There’s no temperature sensor in the left head so there’s no information. With a full cylinder block the fastest way for the water to flow is in the block and immediately up and back out the top of the head so that’s the direction most of the waters going to take. it’s not gonna push all the water out the way to go to the back if it doesn’t have to. if you open up the back of the head (cooling mod) giving water a pathway Then it willI. with the cooling mod you have a path of travel out the back of the cylinder head so the water pump is pushing it through and pulling it out the other side. But all it does is help the temperature throughout the entire engine to stay consistent

 

[Jackson1320]

If the cht sensor was in the back of the left cylinder head there would be no problem. The ecu would see the temperature in the hottest parts of the engine before it was to late. By the time the right head gets hot the left is probably damaged

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