Installed FI Interchiller: 30° Coolant Temp

[DougS550]

So from your examples, we’re looking at a difference of about 40-45* cooler IAT2 temps. Not sure what that equates to as far power increases. Safer sure. But at what IAT does the computer start to pull timing? 135 140 150? I’ve seen them all listed. I’m sure 70* makes more power than 110.

For comparison, my EB runs between 95 and 105 consistently. I’m 90* weather it’s around the 105. I haven’t seen 110+ unless it was run real hard and parked in the hot sun and even then once it runs for a minute it’s back down to the 95-105. That’s with a hot air PMAS as well. There’s no question the killer chiller is working - I’d love to have one if I didn’t have a/c issues - but not sure of the gains I’d see for my purpose, which is just a quick drop top cruiser that sees the track only a few times a year if I’m lucky.

I’m looking forward to your dyno! I hope there’s a noticeable increase!

Two things.
- I decided To install a FI chiller after I drove my car in stop and go traffic with 91°F outside temp, as I watched my IAT2s go over 130°F and my mishimoto 3 core radiator with 170° thermostat temp tilting just past 1/2 way. I did not like that.
- After I installed the large whipple heat exchanger which directly blocks inlet air from grill to my radiator, I couldn't help but think, I should have bought the smaller whipple, single core and used a performance fan pulling air from the grills into the radiator.
I would never do this without having the 3 gallon "total" radiator fluid to keep things reasonably cool until I could drive my car back home in the case the FI Chiller failed.
Plus, I charged my AC with R134a which besides being more efficient, operates at a lower pressure, hoping this would reduce the possibility of AC compressor failure like so many others are experiencing.
My main concern was reliability by reducing IAT2 temps

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[DougS550]

The claim is dubious. They're leaving something out.

Cooling the air AFTER it's been compressed can not result in additional oxygen. Period. End of physics discussion. All it can do is alter how much the motor can take advantage of the oxygen available. So it's mainly an advantage in timing.

If you really peel out all the way down, it's no different than intercooling, just cooling it further. It's particularly useful on 93 octane, but on E85, again, most tunes don't feature severe knock retard until IAT2's are crazy high.

And I've seen the misleading claims that "cooler air is denser." That is true, but let's not get it twisted, if you compress fluid and it heats up, then you cool it, you do indeed make it denser, but you also reduce it's pressure. So it's disingenuous to suggest that the new chilled air is at the same pressure as it was when it left the compressor (hot).

The reason that's not physically possible is because there's no other inputs for additional fluid. Once it leaves the compressor, the temperature and pressure can be altered, but unless you have leaks, there can be no additional particles added to the system.

Now, if one were able to super chill the AMBIENT intake air, THAT is a different story. Starting with denser air will allow the compressor to deliver more air. But starting with hot air, compressing it and then chilling it, it's the same amount of air.

So when you consider that, ask yourself if 140+ hp out of timing adjustments alone seems plausible?

My car made just over 800 rwhp on TDC (zero timing). It ran like shit and we thought it might be getting spark blowout. Once we started adding timing, as we would expect, it picked up power. The differences between 21 degrees and 17 degrees was about 100 rwhp (25 hp/degree average) but the difference between 20 and 21 degrees was in the teens. We saw we were not picking up big gains so the additional spark was diminishing returns. And that was on 19 psi max, on a very HIGHLY FLOWING system.

My point is, unless the tune is starting off INTENTIONALLY shorted, you're not picking up huge amounts of power for every degree of added spark.

Now if you start off with a baseline where the motor is at 16 degrees and once you add the interchiller now you're pushing it out to 21, 22 degrees, then sure. But again, something in the whole claim is intentionally sandbagged or exaggerated (meaning to get 140+ rwhp difference, the baseline was probably shorted to exaggerate the improvement).

I will ask for copies of the dyno runs showing the timing, boost etc from pre to post install.

 

[Torinate]

Two things.
- I decided To install a FI chiller after I drove my car in stop and go traffic with 91°F outside temp, as I watched my IAT2s go over 130°F and my mishimoto 3 core radiator with 170° thermostat temp tilting just past 1/2 way. I did not like that.
- After I installed the large whipple heat exchanger which directly blocks inlet air from grill to my radiator, I couldn't help but think, I should have bought the smaller whipple, single core and used a performance fan pulling air from the grills into the radiator.
I would never do this without having the 3 gallon "total" radiator fluid to keep things reasonably cool until I could drive my car back home in the case the FI Chiller failed.
Plus, I charged my AC with R134a which besides being more efficient, operates at a lower pressure, hoping this would reduce the possibility of AC compressor failure like so many others are experiencing.
My main concern was reliability by reducing IAT2 temps

With that goal, you have succeeded!

 

[Grimreaper]

Id expect it to be entirely possible to find five degrees of timing with chilled air filling the cylinders. Should be enough for 100whp if the hellcats respond similar to the coyote.

I've never been able to find data on e85 vs 93 combustion temps differences. It sounds like near freezing iat2 might be similar. At least with a consistent supply of near freezing air it will help with heat buildup to a degree vs just octane alone. Id argue Octane alone isn't enough for repeated hits with boost and tight ringlads at high compression. But this plus something like boostane sounds like a good alternative to e85.

With 93 you can actually get some MPG. On e85 it's PPT ( pulls per tank)

 

[Timbuck]

I really like the idea of an Interchiller on my future boosted build. Due to living in Australia and right now just at the start of our spring and yesterday I was ripping through the mountains in over 31‘C temps ( over 100F).
the following morning At dawn , I drove in 12‘C temps(53F). Man cars just feel so much better in cool air , and everything is cooler.
i love the idea of When your just cruising around your inlet temps are zero. Hottest I ever see is in traffic.

this engine calculator gives a good representation of power vers temps.

https://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp.htm

just keeping things simple On my calc inputs , you can see a 11.6% difference in avalable HP from the air with 50F change In the air. Yes it probably less in real world. , maybe 5 to 7% Total ho gain.
still could be 50 HP on a boosted build just from air temp , and then take knock into account. Might be able to add a few degree of timing and gain another 50. makes a 100HP gain not out of the question.

for me , over all cooling rather than out right HP is why I’m interested in going this route

 

[Timbuck]

Id expect it to be entirely possible to find five degrees of timing with chilled air filling the cylinders. Should be enough for 100whp if the hellcats respond similar to the coyote.

I've never been able to find data on e85 vs 93 combustion temps differences. It sounds like near freezing iat2 might be similar. At least with a consistent supply of near freezing air it will help with heat buildup to a degree vs just octane alone. Id argue Octane alone isn't enough for repeated hits with boost and tight ringlads at high compression. But this plus something like boostane sounds like a good alternative to e85.

With 93 you can actually get some MPG. On e85 it's PPT ( pulls per tank)

This is a detailed ethanol paper Attached. E50 or greater with a Interchiller for the win in my book.

 

[Angrey]

Id expect it to be entirely possible to find five degrees of timing with chilled air filling the cylinders. Should be enough for 100whp if the hellcats respond similar to the coyote.

I've never been able to find data on e85 vs 93 combustion temps differences. It sounds like near freezing iat2 might be similar. At least with a consistent supply of near freezing air it will help with heat buildup to a degree vs just octane alone. Id argue Octane alone isn't enough for repeated hits with boost and tight ringlads at high compression. But this plus something like boostane sounds like a good alternative to e85.

With 93 you can actually get some MPG. On e85 it's PPT ( pulls per tank)

I have an interchiller and as you pointed out, it's for REPEATED protections against heat soak and elevated IAT2. But it doesn't help my motor make more maximum power on a singe rip. My IAT's even in 95F on the dyno never reached triple digits over the course of a pull (when the car is cold). I discussed this fully with my tuner prior to installation and he indicated he doesn't concern himself with IAT2 on E85 until it gets up North of 140 or 150F. So having the IAT2 at 50F isn't going to help a blown E85 setup. The tuner is already asking for maximum responsible timing.

On 93, I concede, it's not as resistant. So keeping the IAT2 chilled may help A LITTLE.

But unless the tuner is keeping spark retarded by several degrees even at "typical" IAT2's and now magically running it out to max with chilly temps, then the increase jump is again, a little dubious.

WIth the Roush blowers and the poor cooling, on 93, it definitely helps prevent the tune from yanking timing on the top of a real world street or strip run in the heat. I've seen vids of Roush blower/tune cars fall on their face in the middle of 1/4 drag run because the IAT'2's got so hot it started drastically yanking timing. But again, it's not going to INCREASE the max power output it's simply going to allow the tune to maintain it's max/optimal timing.

I'm not saying the interchiller isn't beneficial or sensible. What I'm saying is if you think it's going to magically allow you to make over 100+ hp more. I think the advert and expectation are a little dubious.

 

[Autopart101]

Most tunes even E85 pull timing at 140. FI interchiller helped my car on the top end. Gained .2-.3 60-130 after install.

 

[wazslow]

Just got the info. Stock Hellcat which dynoed in at 600whp stock. Then they put the 1 psi blower pulley on, The interchiller, tuned it on 93 octane and got 748 whp. He will share the before and after dyno graphs.
I am scheduling my dyno now.

That stock dyno number sounds artificially low. Stock Hellcat dyno's I've seen are generally in the 640rwhp range.

 

[DougS550]

That stock dyno number sounds artificially low. Stock Hellcat dyno's I've seen are generally in the 640rwhp range.

I agree it does sound low for a Hellcat, I will ask the Torque Lab Dyno tec who runs the dyno and tunes vehicles what he says.

 

[DougS550]

I have an interchiller and as you pointed out, it's for REPEATED protections against heat soak and elevated IAT2. But it doesn't help my motor make more maximum power on a singe rip. My IAT's even in 95F on the dyno never reached triple digits over the course of a pull (when the car is cold). I discussed this fully with my tuner prior to installation and he indicated he doesn't concern himself with IAT2 on E85 until it gets up North of 140 or 150F. So having the IAT2 at 50F isn't going to help a blown E85 setup. The tuner is already asking for maximum responsible timing.

On 93, I concede, it's not as resistant. So keeping the IAT2 chilled may help A LITTLE.

But unless the tuner is keeping spark retarded by several degrees even at "typical" IAT2's and now magically running it out to max with chilly temps, then the increase jump is again, a little dubious.

WIth the Roush blowers and the poor cooling, on 93, it definitely helps prevent the tune from yanking timing on the top of a real world street or strip run in the heat. I've seen vids of Roush blower/tune cars fall on their face in the middle of 1/4 drag run because the IAT'2's got so hot it started drastically yanking timing. But again, it's not going to INCREASE the max power output it's simply going to allow the tune to maintain it's max/optimal timing.

I'm not saying the interchiller isn't beneficial or sensible. What I'm saying is if you think it's going to magically allow you to make over 100+ hp more. I think the advert and expectation are a little dubious.

The main reason on dynoing my car was for reliability, from a great tuner, "Live" dyno tuning. The numbers are great but in the end I am wanting to ensure all fuels, timing ETC, are running smooth, but mostly, SAFE. I told Wengerd to make all safety algorithms/settings such as Knock sensitivity, timing to be set at or above OEM levels to ensure if I have an issue with my car, it reacts to it as fast as possible. I am not chasing dyno numbers but is a good reference if or when I do more performance mods.

 

[DougS550]

I forgot to ask: Does anyone know what gear is 1:1 ratio with a A10 with 3.55 diff ratio 19" tires?

 

[robvas]

I forgot to ask: Does anyone know what gear is 1:1 ratio with a A10 with 3.55 diff ratio 19" tires?

7th

Same as every other 1080

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