"expected" weight gain

[All-Or-Nothing]

I don't want a 3700lb car, I want a 3200lb car or less, preferably less.

:gossip: No Mustang for you then.

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[FordBlueHeart]

The easy solution is to reduce the overall size of the vehicle. Add in additional stiffness and handling improvements, but on a much smaller envelope. This is exactly why I am nervous about any real weight reduction given the 2015 is only fractionally shorter.

I'm in agreement with you there. But as noted here at M6G previously, there are other weighs (pun intended) about it.
I think someone (The Pill or Overboost possibly)mentioned the use of Boron steel. Whether this is what is used now or could be used, the solution was to use a higher quality steel that is lighter but increases strength. Therefore the solution might not come immediately due to cost factors initially.
My thoughts are that the hope is to use this high strength steel among several vehicles in Ford's lineup, therefore lowering these costs.

 

[SStormtrooPer]

But it won't dynamically outhandle the Mustang on a road course, no?

No, a Camry will not out-handle a Mustang on the road course. That is completely beside the point.

Earlier you asked if weight was one of the top 3 most important criteria -- and while it absolutely IS with this car just because of how big and bloated the Mustang has become with the outgoing model, it should NOT have to be something we even have to think about. That is where I was going with the Camry comment. It's a 4 door appliance built to do nothing great, but everything well. It is not a performer. Its not a drag machine, its not a autocross car. Which car should weigh more, logically?

Maybe we should start a poll? "Option A" is a Mustang that has more power, better interior refinements, handles and rides better than the previous generation but weighs the same. Option B is a Mustang that doesn't do anything better than "Option A". In fact, "Option B" isn't as well planted on the road, but it weighs 200 lbs. less.

Are you serious? That scenario doesn't even make any sense.

 

[pacettr]

No, a Camry will not out-handle a Mustang on the road course. That is completely beside the point.

Earlier you asked if weight was one of the top 3 most important criteria -- and while it absolutely IS with this car just because of how big and bloated the Mustang has become with the outgoing model, it should NOT have to be something we even have to think about. That is where I was going with the Camry comment. It's a 4 door appliance built to do nothing great, but everything well. It is not a performer. Its not a drag machine, its not a autocross car. Which car should weigh more, logically?




Are you serious? That scenario doesn't even make any sense.

Well since a FWD transaxle and small 4cyl engine with no rear axle and gears, are MUCH lighter than a v8 with its matching transmission and driveshaft, along and the larger brakes, wheels/tires etc, it's really not hard to comprehend.

 

[FordBlueHeart]

Are you serious? That scenario doesn't even make any sense.

It's called a hypothetical.

 

[minicobra]

Weight is definitely an important factor with me too, I'm also hoping the car will lose at least 200lbs I've owned a lot of cars and the lighter sub 3000lb ones were usually more fun to drive and toss around, but not necessarily the fastest around a track, or the best street car for that matter.

There are so many other factors to consider, overall weight being an important one, but also where the weight is.

Weight distribution
Unsprung weight
Rotational mass.
Center of gravity, etc, etc.

Yes, all things created equal, reducing weight, generally equals a faster car.
Then there are other things to consider, reliability, durability, longevity, did I leave out any ty words, steering feel, suspension geometry, seating position, etc, etc. etc. All things to consider as factors for performance.

Aerodynamics for example, you've got lift, downforce, drag, wind resistance, etc. Lets say they took 500lbs out of the car, but the thing is square, like a box, how do you think it's going to perform?

Bottom line is, I will be happy if they can get the weight down, but I will be more happy if they make this the best car overall, for the money, in and above it's class. I have a feeling that they did, so lets just wait and see what the numbers look like after some magazine comparos

For those of you that list overall weight as a deal breaker, ask yourself this:
If this car can beat a new 911, Z07, M4, and a z/28 around Laguna Seca and VIR and it happens to gain 100lbs, you wouldn't buy it?

 

[Dirk McGurck]

There are other cars with technology, power, and refinement out there, some excelling in one respect or the others that don't weigh as much as the outgoing models.

If they had gone with the increase in width, shortened it 6 inches in wheelbase, shortened it 1 ft over all, there would be no discussion. Chop the front clip down, shorten the trunk a couple inches. Pushes the engine back a little for better weight, and you would still maintain the usable trunk and back seats.

If we take the members here as the group that actually cares about the Mustang as a driver's car and not an appliance, what we see is that half of us wanted it to be smaller and the other half doesn't care either way.

 

[scottpe]

Seems to me that what matters is the end result. They've promised a Mustang that's fun to drive, more refined and compliant than any Mustang EVER on the streets, has a vastly improved interior and outruns the current Boss on the track. That seems like a win to me no matter what the thing weighs. Now obviously lighter is always better, all else being equal. But I don't really understand the obsession some people have with the weight, to the point where they won't even consider purchasing the car, no matter how great it handles and drives, if it doesn't weigh what they think it should. Seems a bit narrow minded to me.

I just don't think it is realistic to expect a 3200lb Mustang without sacrificing a LOT of what makes the upcoming model so nice. As has already been pointed out, Chevy couldn't even pull that off in their new Vette (a 2-seater), with its more exotic frame and materials (and significantly higher price tag).

Now all that being said, I will be disappointed if the new car gains weight, but I'm not going to let it keep me from buying one, especially if all of these other improvements that are on paper translate favorably to the real world performance and driveability of the car.

But to each his own I guess...

 

[minicobra]

If they had gone with the increase in width, shortened it 6 inches in wheelbase, shortened it 1 ft over all, there would be no discussion. Chop the front clip down, shorten the trunk a couple inches. Pushes the engine back a little for better weight, and you would still maintain the usable trunk and back seats.

If I were the lead designer on the team that built the new Mustang, I would have drove in a 1965 Fastback and said, make it this size/shape with more modern features and performance. If they could have just added all the new features to the smaller size, that would have been awesome.

I know that the reality is a bit more complex from an engineering standpoint though. Consider all the things that would come up and issues a design team has to face. NVH, Crash testing, crumple zones, crush zones. All the government, NHTSA, and European regulations that have to be met.
Then on top of that you need good looks, that doesn't resemble other cars or past cars too closely. It has to be efficiently aerodynamic, balanced, usable storage and occupant space and be reliable and durable in all areas. It's kind of mind boggling how they make it all come together. I think these guys did a great job engineering this car, hats off to them, and even better if they dropped a few pounds in the process. Keeping fingers crossed, although not a deal breaker for me. If it drives as good as it looks, sign me up

 

[Trackaholic]

As someone who would be tracking the car, I'd be thrilled if Ford could keep the weight down. At the same time, I would also be happy with a car that improves on the performance of its predecessor, even if it gains a little weight (like the C7 Corvette).

Looking at the BMW 434i, which weighs about 3600 lbs, it seems like the Mustang has little reason to weight much more than that. At the same time, due to the larger engine (in GT guise) and the associate increase in torque, it is likely the transmission and rest of the drivetrain would need to be larger as well. So it doesn't seem likely that the Mustang would be much less either.

Still, all these early rumors of the large weight drop (also like the C7) gets peoples' hopes up, and then when the actual car gains weight some are much more disappointed than they might otherwise be. The reactions might be less severe if the companies were better at managing expectations.

If this car drives better than the previous version, I will be happy, even if I know that the potential for an improved track experience was missed due to an increase in weight. If the car is good enough, I would buy it.

-T

 

[Gitter]

...But I don't really understand the obsession some people have with the weight, to the point where they won't even consider purchasing the car, no matter how great it handles and drives, if it doesn't weigh what they think it should. Seems a bit narrow minded to me...

Overall, I complete agree with your post.

I just wanted to add that you can get a fairly good idea of how the [stock] car will handle based on how much it weighs and how big it is physically and is why I think people fall into the "I will not buy it if it's over xx". But then again, some people don't mind a bit more weight (to a certain extent). It all depends on their intended uses of the car.

I, for one, will not buy another car that is over 3600lbs because I owned a car that was just over that mark. Less than a year later, I ended up trading it in because I was never satisfied with the car's performance for what I was looking for.

Honestly, I'd prefer to go back down to around 3400lbs if I could because that's what I learned to drive hard in and is what I became accustomed to...basically, it became my benchmark. Luckily, I have since tested cars that weigh more than 3400 and found that they are able to handle fairly well (compared to the older 3400lb car) thanks to newer technology...so I am willing to try a car that weighs more, but not everyone likes to try things out of their comfort zone.

 

[Whiskey11]

Seems to me that what matters is the end result. They've promised a Mustang that's fun to drive, more refined and compliant than any Mustang EVER on the streets, has a vastly improved interior and outruns the current Boss on the track. That seems like a win to me no matter what the thing weighs. Now obviously lighter is always better, all else being equal. But I don't really understand the obsession some people have with the weight, to the point where they won't even consider purchasing the car, no matter how great it handles and drives, if it doesn't weigh what they think it should. Seems a bit narrow minded to me.

I just don't think it is realistic to expect a 3200lb Mustang without sacrificing a LOT of what makes the upcoming model so nice. As has already been pointed out, Chevy couldn't even pull that off in their new Vette (a 2-seater), with its more exotic frame and materials (and significantly higher price tag).

Now all that being said, I will be disappointed if the new car gains weight, but I'm not going to let it keep me from buying one, especially if all of these other improvements that are on paper translate favorably to the real world performance and driveability of the car.

But to each his own I guess...

My obsession with weight has to do with the fact that I compete in my car. The classes I compete in, the Mustang is generally 600-800lbs heavier than the other cars in the class. Considering we are all on the same tires, I'm at a HUGE disadvantage for being competitive and that is in a 2009 GT that comes in at 3425 in competition trim (1/8th tank of gas, coilovers and some other things). Even with 150-160lbs of class legal weight to remove it will still be 500lbs heavier than the nearest competition in class and running only 10mm more tire per corner because of class limits and the fact that no one else is running the class legal 265 wide tires (most are on 255 or less). Even this next year we get 20mm more per corner of tire but instead of competing against 2500-2800lb RWD cars we are going to compete against 3000-3100 turbo 4 cylinder AWD cars and even on 245 wide tires they are quick, very, very quick. We will get 285mm tires, but I'm still at 3275-3300lbs and making less power.

The hope was that the GT model loses 200lbs, which to be honest is achievable while strengthening the chassis (See Mazda Gram approach), that would put the GT starting in the 3350-3400lb range... the EB 2.0L is about 80lbs lighter with associated plumbing and hardware but dry. With the oil capacity difference we'll call it an even 100lbs lighter than the 5.0L. That puts a Turbo 4 at 3250-3300lbs with about 190lbs-200lbs of in class weight that can be removed for a competition weight somewhere in the 3060-3110 range which is a far better match to those turbo 4 AWD cars in the 3000-3100 range while making less power but having 40mm more tire. Every ounce Ford drops is a bonus. An even lighter Turbo 4 would make this goal easier to accomplish.

I know I'm not the only one... and I know there are people who don't compete but participate in track days who'd like to not fry a set of $400-$500 track pads every other weekend because the car weighs 3900lbs with driver and full tank of fuel... 4 piston Brembos or 6 piston Brembos or otherwise. Less weight helps with that tremendously. Less weight also helps with fuel economy and it helps with the acceleration of the car. In general there are plenty of reasons TO lose weight and very few to gain it.

 

[Tony Alonso]

No, a Camry will not out-handle a Mustang on the road course. That is completely beside the point.

I think it is part of the equation though.

Earlier you asked if weight was one of the top 3 most important criteria -- and while it absolutely IS with this car just because of how big and bloated the Mustang has become with the outgoing model, it should NOT have to be something we even have to think about. That is where I was going with the Camry comment. It's a 4 door appliance built to do nothing great, but everything well. It is not a performer. Its not a drag machine, its not a autocross car. Which car should weigh more, logically?

A Lamborghini Aventador or Ferrari Berlinetta is over 3800lbs if memory serves, and these are generally acknowledged as great handling cars. I am acknowledging I understand your point with the clarification you made.

I asked that question in terms of the individual's personal decision making criteria. Hopefully the weight won't go up, but the reality is that it might. For my purchase consideration, it likely would not influence. I understand it might yours.

Just conversing here to better understand your rationale.

 

[Dirk McGurck]

I stand by my previous statement:

This forum is representative of the Mustang enthusiast crowd, meaning we are the people who care about the Mustang as a driver's car and not as an appliance.

Half here wanted a smaller and/or lighter car. The other half don't care either way. Non-enthusiasts would have seen the benefit of a lighter car in terms of gas mileage. Ford had nothing to lose (except weight).

 

[VIN666]

Ford claims they met their weight target. Anyone know what said target was?

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